Delta off the Runway - LGA

GypsyPilot said:
This is probably a stupid question, but how difficult is it to monitor EPR while also dealing with the other challenges of a low vis rollout combined with crosswinds? I've just never encountered a situation where I had to fine tune something in the cockpit while dealing with potentially challenging rollout conditions... The only thing I really monitor on rollout is airspeed, for TR limitations. Even then, I'm not having to look at anything until well into the decel stage.
Click to expand...

That's a great question. It is challenging. You face multiple threats including asymmetrical reverse thrust and/or too much reverse. It's quite a cross scan
 
Trip7 said:
That's a great question. It is challenging. You face multiple threats including asymmetrical reverse thrust and/or too much reverse. It's quite a cross scan
Click to expand...

That's what I figured. I hope the pilots don't get thrown under the bus... Seems ridiculous some of the stuff we are expected to cover for when there is a known issue with an aircraft, and expected to be perfect at it 100% of the time.
 
GypsyPilot said:
This is probably a stupid question, but how difficult is it to monitor EPR while also dealing with the other challenges of a low vis rollout combined with crosswinds? I've just never encountered a situation where I had to fine tune something in the cockpit while dealing with potentially challenging rollout conditions... The only thing I really monitor on rollout is airspeed, for TR limitations. Even then, I'm not having to look at anything until well into the decel stage.
Click to expand...

Making sure the spoilers and reversers deployed as well as monitoring the EPR's while in reverse was my ONLY job as a FE during the rollout. I think the books said I should callout the EPR's but everyone knew that was annoying and a pain, so usually only something near the bugged GA would get a call. Add in low vis, short runways, cool airplanes at the airport.... and that was with a 3rd person who only watched EPR's.
 
I've asked around and never received a straight answer as to why procedure was to target 1.6 EPR since there is Max Reverse EPR Limit. The most common guess was to not overboost the engines. Turns out that when EPR is greater than 1.6 the rudder and vertical stabilizer provide little to no directional control. The incident airplane had 2.07 EPR on the left engine.
 
Trip7 said:
I've asked around and never received a straight answer as to why procedure was to target 1.6 EPR since there is Max Reverse EPR Limit. The most common guess was to not overboost the engines. Turns out that when EPR is greater than 1.6 the rudder and vertical stabilizer provide little to no directional control. The incident airplane had 2.07 EPR on the left engine.
Click to expand...

One of the improvements made in the transition from the DC9 to the MD80 to the 717 was much better TR control and EPR management. Also, I *think* they made a few aerodynamic changes that took care of the rudder blanking issue.
 
As @Trip7 mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, the MD88 thrust reversers are extremely finicky. They rarely if ever spool up evenly, the rise to the EPR limit can be shockingly quick, and sometimes they don't even unlock like you expect them to. To make matters worse there is little standardization withjn the fleet. Each plane is different and even each engine can be unique. They can absolutely divert your attention in a hurry, especially when you are new on the airplane. Ask anyone new on the airplane what they dislike the most about it and I'll bet a large sum that they mention the TR's.
 
Occasionally I would have a new captain grab handful of reverse on the Mad dog and my spidey sense would flare.

They'd really didn't do much after you cracked the clamshells so I generally didn't use a lot because of the risk-reward considerations of screwing with directional control.
 
Derg said:
Occasionally I would have a new captain grab handful of reverse on the Mad dog and my spidey sense would flare.

They'd really didn't do much after you cracked the clamshells so I generally didn't use a lot because of the risk-reward considerations of screwing with directional control.
Click to expand...

I basically open them, try to get a little over idle reverse, and if it doesn't go to my target it's kind of like "oh well maybe next time." But I agree with @Derg the guys that go all the way to 1.6 every time are just setting themselves up and causing the folks in the last few rows to lose their hearing a little more quickly. Stopping distance doesn't change all that much.
 
Seggy said:
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
Click to expand...

Is the "Boeing 717" kosher?

Because from what @BobDDuck said, it sounds like all they needed was 50 years to figure out the DC-9 tail rudder aerodynamics issues on landing rollout, and now it's good to go.

...Which ain't bad when you think about it. I mean, what did the rest of the world accomplish during that half century?
 
Nick said:
Is the "Boeing 717" kosher?

Because from what @BobDDuck said, it sounds like all they needed was 50 years to figure out the DC-9 tail rudder aerodynamics issues on landing rollout, and now it's good to go.

...Which ain't bad when you think about it. I mean, what did the rest of the world accomplish during that half century?
Click to expand...

I'm reading this while eating Kosher for Passover macaroons
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top