NEW CFI Academy
- Thread starter myron96
- Start date
tcco94
Future GTA VI Pilot
Well I've been considering going this route now if I go the CFI route....
Got in contact with a recruiter and said they were averaging 20 people a class....class every 3 weeks. Make sure you read on their website that this cost does not include your examiner fees that they say average $1000-$1500. What is the deal with their examiners? Did they switch that as part of the new program? Recruiter said they've only had a few classes come through so far since they "reopened" it and they don't know anyone who has failed....not sure the truth behind that. Can you apply to flight instruct after your training?
Got in contact with a recruiter and said they were averaging 20 people a class....class every 3 weeks. Make sure you read on their website that this cost does not include your examiner fees that they say average $1000-$1500. What is the deal with their examiners? Did they switch that as part of the new program? Recruiter said they've only had a few classes come through so far since they "reopened" it and they don't know anyone who has failed....not sure the truth behind that. Can you apply to flight instruct after your training?
Not to sure if this has changed, but they hire right out of the fast track career("guaranteed job") and self paced programs(although not guaranteed I know of a few who became inst). It depends on the need.
When I was in the program they never hired out of the program because they had plenty of students in the program to fill the needed slots. In fact, some had to wait a month or two after standardization to the position to open.
That being said, there is no harm in applying especially if you pass all the certs on your first go.
Examiner fees are usually not covered in most programs. But, you can always go the FAA examiner route, but expect a decent wait. I have a buddy in cfi school now will update you guys on busts. It does happen. My class had 1, class before me had 2, and class after me had none.
I've moved my class date to May 11th. Got an opportunity to log cheap flight time and get instrument proficient.
From what I hear from my friend, study(pts and what atp recommends on their web page) before you come to Jax, get used to flying and talking from the right seat. Fly at your local FBo and come ready.
tcco94
Future GTA VI Pilot
When you're talking about busts do you mean failing out of the program or busting an xride? Recruiter online told me that if it happens you'll just brief and plan to fly the following day and get the xride completed. I'm still not to sure about the program, obviously I know it's rushed which is fine...I'd rather have it that way.
There's no issue doing the studying at home before I go out to JAX but is this training how to become a CFI or is it prepping you for the xride? It will be tough for me to get much experience teaching from the right seat other than chair flying by myself. I could do 1-2 flights at my college to keep my flying steady and what not but how much do you really need on top of what you will get at ATP? Kinda figured that's what my money was going to ATP was for...
I could ask these questions to their recruiter but I'd get one sided answers obviously...so I'm not gonna bother. I've looked at US Aviation Academy... 4 month course CFI Pro will get you everything also just double the price but includes housing, examiner fees, and all that jazz it looks like. Something like that seems a lot more comforting than ATP...just more expensive I guess?
By busts I meant failed checkride and yes, usually in a day or two you go up to finish it. You will never know enough for your initial, but some schools(American flyers 30day prog)do a better job than atp does in terms of time to teach things out of the pts. Only problem with Af is that between flights and pre and post flight briefing your money gets drained rather fast. Mine was at roughly 30-50 bucks. At the end they both do the same, but with atp it's 10 days in you know your check ride date and examiner and american flyers it's a shy over 30.
In my experience with atp, they will teach you(or you will teach yourself. Ha ) everything you need to know. A few days out from your check ride the instructor will sit down with you and go over what the examiner is picky about/focus points. Some like to go in detail with aerodynamics, weight and balance, cx planning and so on. Everything in the pts is fair game, but each examiner is picky about their own topics and rarely(I've never seen my DPe do it)sway away.
Be careful with US aviation. Two guys I know tried to go there for their cfi and waited months for the class to start. Word is they don't start till they have enough students to start. In their case they needed 6 or more. So they just kept calling and class never started. Keep in mind US aviations main business are the Asian students, so they will take priority over you. This was the case two years ago, so not sure how much of that has changed.
tcco94
Future GTA VI Pilot
Well as long as ATP does a good job my money. I've got $6500 banked at my college right now just for my CFI lab and my plans were to take that out after graduation and throw it to ATP then figure the other half out. If I work for 2 months this summer I could bank enough to survive at the hotel for food and such (which is another worry for some reason)...I obviously won't move out there for a 21 day course, but I will have to leave my job as a ramp agent because I won't be allowed to take that much time off. So I'm just hoping I can get this ASAP then onto a job somewhere (TransPac is my #1) fast and get to building time.
I obviously know I won't be getting the same treatment I have at my college being a 141 student for 3 years, but I have some background in the 61 world...got my private in 2 months and was fine with the heavy workload. Obviously this will be much different, but will their minimum hours that I'm paying them for cover everything I need to know in the airplane? To feel confident enough for my xride? Like you said about US Aviation, that's the stuff that worries me. Getting into a trap at these schools that sell it so perfectly then having my career and life in this big hole. I'm sure the book studying isn't too tough working 7 days a week there probably 12+ hours a day of studying....just a lot of criticism against ATP and not too sure why. Looks great on their website...
ATP will do a good job with your money, but with minimal ground school you will have to do 95% of the work and come ready(flying and pts)
TransPac is great place to build time. A buddy of mine is there in AZ and logging 108/month and thats with two days off per week..
As far as ATPs min hr req usually is sufficient for people in their career prog. Most have logged 100hrs before their cfi initial check ride. Its usually the people out of the prog that might have to spend extra. Again, ATP will try their best to get you done within those min req time, but if anyone doesn't demonstrate proper skills to pass the xride, they wont sign you off.
With ATp it all comes down to who your instructor is. I started off the program with an amazing instructor and then once he left for the regional i had one of those "im just here to build flight time" kinda instructors for my Instrument phase and he too left right after that and i had an ok instructor for the remainder of prog. The instructor issue will be true pretty much anywhere you go. So, my overall experience with ATP has been good. Good enough to go after my initial with them over other schools just because i know how they run things and what they expect out of me . Come ready and proficient and you will be good to go
tcco94
Future GTA VI Pilot
Well thanks for all the info and reassurance on the program. Lots of people from my 141 world here shun on ATP but my 61 private instructor loved it....so kinda made me feel uneasy. Also the rumors about their CFI program being poor and not passable but seems like it's in good shape. This so far is my plan if I can't get on with a 135. They said they should have class dates about 2 months out from when you want to go so I'll have to contact them in June for an August class. It'll suck quitting my job and after waiting to get on as a CFI somewhere but I'm hoping that wait isn't long. I'll post details if I do sign up for a class and etc. Anyone stay in JAX for those 3 weeks? Suggest places to stay that will save me $$$?!ATP will do a good job with your money, but with minimal ground school you will have to do 95% of the work and come ready(flying and pts)
TransPac is great place to build time. A buddy of mine is there in AZ and logging 108/month and thats with two days off per week..
As far as ATPs min hr req usually is sufficient for people in their career prog. Most have logged 100hrs before their cfi initial check ride. Its usually the people out of the prog that might have to spend extra. Again, ATP will try their best to get you done within those min req time, but if anyone doesn't demonstrate proper skills to pass the xride, they wont sign you off.
With ATp it all comes down to who your instructor is. I started off the program with an amazing instructor and then once he left for the regional i had one of those "im just here to build flight time" kinda instructors for my Instrument phase and he too left right after that and i had an ok instructor for the remainder of prog. The instructor issue will be true pretty much anywhere you go. So, my overall experience with ATP has been good. Good enough to go after my initial with them over other schools just because i know how they run things and what they expect out of me . Come ready and proficient and you will be good to go
crticalaoa
Well-Known Member
Ill be there in july or august. Im looking for a place for me and my future wife. Any suggestions would be great. tcco94 did the school tell you about their dorms?
tcco94
Future GTA VI Pilot
I don't think they have dorms...I believe I read their website saying they have hotel deals...since its only a 21 day course. When in August do you think?
Yea, I'm not surprised at people either hating or loving atp. What I never understood is the blatant hatred towards them when they don't squat. Aw well. Can't please em all, I guess. And as far as low pass rates, I'm not sure who told you that, but I know for a fact it's pretty high. Yes, people bust and almost always pass on their second try around, but based on my experience and talking to two current instructors who have had their students go to Jax or Ft lauderdale(no longer for us) have all passed.
I am signed up for the May 11th class and will keep you posted on how things are.
As for staying you have two options. Stay at their recommended long term hotels or check out homeaway.com. The dorm is only available to their career prog guys and so is a rental car and airfare back and forth to their base.
I will be staying at the extended stay with a buddy of mine who will be doing the May 11th class.
BarbieDreamPilot
homeless
I hope they redid the program, because when I attended ground school it was just powerpoints 8 hours a day for 2 weeks. We had 11 people in the class, most dropped and of those of us that stayed only 1 passed first time. I left and finished at American Flyers; never looked back. They burned up all my training time during CFI academy and then scheduled the checkride. I had no prep time left, and there was over a month long delay before the ride actually happened, despite my repeated requests to save some of my time. Not to mention it was at an airport I'd never flown out of before. The pass rates from the LZU academy were abysmal.
tcco94
Future GTA VI Pilot
Just called American Flyers. Made me feel a lot more comfortable with their program.....
BarbieDreamPilot
homeless
Cuban 800 has some sick reverse thrusters eh? God, I wish I could taxi backwards IRL
tcco94
Future GTA VI Pilot
She glides so beautifully and only requires a driveway length of runway to takeoff and land. That's what I love about her.
crticalaoa
Well-Known Member
So whats better ATP or American Flyers?
BarbieDreamPilot
homeless
I went to both. It depends.
This ride is tough, and passes/fails are going to depend almost entirely on your preparation. For example, you need to be able to summarize pretty much everything in the aviation instructor's handbook. Laws/Principles of learning? REEPIR - readiness, effect, exercise, primacy, intensity, recency. What is the law of primacy Mr. Applicant? Primacy is the state of being; it's important that as an instructor we teach property the first time blah blah blah.... The FAA handbooks are gold; if you know them you're most of the way there, and if you don't, then you're screwed. PHAK, Aviation Instructor's Handbook, AFH, Part 61 and 91, NTSB 830, AIM are all critical. The CFI oral exam guide is great to test your knowledge, but it is not exhaustive.
90% of the time, if you are up to PTS standard then you'll pass, DPE or IA, and 90% of the time if you're not, DPE or IA, they're going to bust you.
It's pretty nuanced, I'd say it will boil down to the competency and dedication of your individual instructors. But. Yeah. American Flyers wins. :stir:
- In my experience ATP used DPE's, which have slightly higher pass rates, but more importantly, motivated scheduling. You're talking to a guy that waited months on the ATL FSDO for an inspector for my initial ride, then at least a month again for my retest (ending in a discontinuance), and then another long stretch for my final test. American Flyers used inspectors. They're free, which is nice because most students fail the first time regardless of who they're sitting in front of. DPEs are retesting next day in many cases.
- In my past experience ATP DPEs were charging 500 or 600 for initial test and at least half that for a retest.
- In my experience, American Flyers had more knowledgable instructors (myself included?
I don't work there anymore.) - AF provided oral and group discussion-based ground, while ATP instructors made extensive use of powerpoints.
- Students will have quite a bit more control over instructors at American Flyers, arguably leading to better instruction. At ATP you have no control, but they do provide their CFIs with a first-time pass bonus. YMMV
- At AF students were assigned the CFI-A single engine ride first, while at ATP they do the MEI first, and later the instrument add-on in the PA44, then single engine add-on in 172 or archer. ATP will argue that the multi ride is easier, because the maneuvers are simpler, and for their fast track students they're probably right; they just finished up 50 hours of XC behind a seminole yoke. But for everyone else it could get expensive fast if your stick and rudder skills in a multi are not great to start with and then you end up retaking the exam once or twice, either because you busted in the flight portion and you need to retest, or (more likely) because you busted in the oral and now you need additional training because you're getting rusty sitting around for a DPE, or finally because maybe your luck sucks and the weather just wasn't working out and now you're rusty. We're talking 200 an hour for the AF 172RG or ~500 an hour for the PA44.
- ATP did not give students the option to save a few hours flight time in case a ride was delayed. We flew all of it out before they scheduled (could be tomorrow, probably a couple weeks, but it could be a month or month and a half for a DPE. Better hope you're still sharp!)
- ATP has financing available, so if you don't have the cash then ATP it is!
This ride is tough, and passes/fails are going to depend almost entirely on your preparation. For example, you need to be able to summarize pretty much everything in the aviation instructor's handbook. Laws/Principles of learning? REEPIR - readiness, effect, exercise, primacy, intensity, recency. What is the law of primacy Mr. Applicant? Primacy is the state of being; it's important that as an instructor we teach property the first time blah blah blah.... The FAA handbooks are gold; if you know them you're most of the way there, and if you don't, then you're screwed. PHAK, Aviation Instructor's Handbook, AFH, Part 61 and 91, NTSB 830, AIM are all critical. The CFI oral exam guide is great to test your knowledge, but it is not exhaustive.
90% of the time, if you are up to PTS standard then you'll pass, DPE or IA, and 90% of the time if you're not, DPE or IA, they're going to bust you.
It's pretty nuanced, I'd say it will boil down to the competency and dedication of your individual instructors. But. Yeah. American Flyers wins. :stir: