Delta Disqualifiers

Acrofox said:
A> What is a qualification?
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An item, number, feature or status that, through quantitative and qualitative analysis, research, historical look-back, gut feel or just PFM has been determined to be needed to do a certain job.

B> On what technical basis (aside from total time, experience, and Jet/FMS time) would you justify that I, personally, should be excluded from a job at Delta? Or to put it another way, in what way am I unqualified to work there, whereas someone with a BS in IT / Telecom would be qualified?
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You are unqualified to work for Delta because you don't have the qualifications that are required. It has absolutely nothing to do with a technical basis but rather that the people making the decisions have decided that an college degree is a mandatory qualification.

What is the distinction between a credential and a qualification?
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A qualification can be fuzzy to qualify like 4 year degree in engineering vs. 4 year degree in underwater basketweaving. A credential is a standardized recognition of completing some task.
 
BobDDuck said:
An item, number, feature or status that, through quantitative and qualitative analysis, research, historical look-back, gut feel or just PFM has been determined to be needed to do a certain job.
You are unqualified to work for Delta because you don't have the qualifications that are required. It has absolutely nothing to do with a technical basis but rather that the people making the decisions have decided that an college degree is a mandatory qualification.
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And what if someday Delta needs pilots badly enough that they have to (*gasp*) hire a pilot who doesn't hold a four-year degree? What if, in the past, they accidentally forgot to require that four-year degree for a while, and hired pilots without it?

(I know, I know, they'd rather go bankrupt than do such a terrible thing, but bear with my little hypothetical for a moment...)

Would a four-year degree still be a qualification?

-Fox
(Don't get me wrong—the fact that we can play word games all day long is immaterial. This is a conceptual issue, not an issue of definitions, especially as words are as mutable as language as concepts as reality as the whole goddamn human condition, and I'm trying to make a larger point here.)
 
TWP said:
ATN pilot said it's a silly game, and it is. From their point of view, if you can't even handle a silly game then you can't handle the job because I don't know if any of ya'll have noticed, but you can't help but feel like the entire place is a joke when you are at an airport. In fact, being a pilot seems to be about how much BS you can put up with more than anything. Many people, including myself, have taken other paths because of this.
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Now that's about the biggest load of BS I've read here in a while. The majority of guys at the majors came from a regional, first. We deal with a whole bunch more BS than guys at good companies, like Delta, United, and American do.

And with this bring career number two for myself, I'll take the airport BS any day compared to just about any other career field. We honestly don't deal with much.
 
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Do not question the questions.

Conform.

Through the hoops you are told to proceed through.

:)


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How many in this thread have applied and gotten a definitive "no"...?

In person conversations usually sound like this thread and the person hasn't even applied. That will get you not hired faster than anything.

A friend of mine just got hired at Delta, from the right seat. OK, he was in his upgrade class, but no PIC time except for flight instructing. No internal recs, no union work, no volunteer work, finished college in 7 years with a 2.8 GPA, criminal record, and an at fault aircraft incident, ect... Almost zero boxes checked other than some flight time. Absolutely standup guy though and I would gladly go into battle during the worst emergency and/or spend 4 days with him. That's what got him the job I'd say. Everything about his being portrays that image. I do hate him for that. Haha

Apply and don't be a butthead in the interview I say. brb, opening airlineapps :)
 
UAL747400 said:
How many in this thread have applied and gotten a definitive "no"...?

In person conversations usually sound like this thread and the person hasn't even applied. That will get you not hired faster than anything.

A friend of mine just got hired at Delta, from the right seat. OK, he was in his upgrade class, but no PIC time except for flight instructing. No internal recs, no union work, no volunteer work, finished college in 7 years with a 2.8 GPA, criminal record, and an at fault aircraft incident, ect... Almost zero boxes checked other than some flight time. Absolutely standup guy though and I would gladly go into battle during the worst emergency and/or spend 4 days with him. That's what got him the job I'd say. Everything about his being portrays that image. I do hate him for that. Haha

Apply and don't be a butthead in the interview I say. brb, opening airlineapps :)
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You're disqualified.

















:)

Seriously though, this thread has gone full circle (or something like that) from the disqualifying boxes of the Delta application, to Delta HR, to the philosophy of Delta HR regarding time to complete a degree, to the time required to get a philosophy degree, to the merit of a philosophy degree compared to an engineering degree, to the philosophy required to get an engineering degree, to the philosophy of not getting a degree, to Delta HR's philosophy of getting a degree to........ Fill out the application!!
 
mastermags said:
You're disqualified.

















:)

Seriously though, this thread has gone full circle (or something like that) from the disqualifying boxes of the Delta application, to Delta HR, to the philosophy of Delta HR regarding time to complete a degree, to the time required to get a philosophy degree, to the merit of a philosophy degree compared to an engineering degree, to the philosophy required to get an engineering degree, to the philosophy of not getting a degree, to Delta HR's philosophy of getting a degree to........ Fill out the application!!
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I already did.
 
UAL747400 said:
How many in this thread have applied and gotten a definitive "no"...?

In person conversations usually sound like this thread and the person hasn't even applied. That will get you not hired faster than anything.

A friend of mine just got hired at Delta, from the right seat. OK, he was in his upgrade class, but no PIC time except for flight instructing. No internal recs, no union work, no volunteer work, finished college in 7 years with a 2.8 GPA, criminal record, and an at fault aircraft incident, ect... Almost zero boxes checked other than some flight time. Absolutely standup guy though and I would gladly go into battle during the worst emergency and/or spend 4 days with him. That's what got him the job I'd say. Everything about his being portrays that image. I do hate him for that. Haha

Apply and don't be a butthead in the interview I say. brb, opening airlineapps :)
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This was basically my story getting hired at jetBlue - so it can be done. Best post on the thread so far.

Well, except, I wasn't in upgrade class - even though I had just done my Direct Cable 9 class the year prior and was in Mad Dog transition. College for me was 4.25 years - I ran out of money and went back 5 years later and $10,000 poorer and finished it. GPA of 2.999999999999 at the end. (Last three courses were all A's of course - not that B6 requires a college degree.) Also, I don't have a criminal record, a completely clean driving record, and no failed checkrides. But, other than it it's the same. Well, other than it being a different airline and my employer not requiring the degree. The part of no union work. (I was a 3/4 transcon commuter and didn't have any free time with min days off each month and my last gig didn't have a union.) no volunteer work (Commuting and taking care of the fam.) and not knowing anyone is accurate.

When jetBlue called, I absolutely thought it was a friend playing a joke on me. The pre-interviewer thought it was very funny also when I double and triple-checked.

The above is one of the best posts I've read on this thread. It really can be done. Fill out your apps, update them as appropriate, and work on yourself as you have the time. I went back and forth between finishing my last three classes at LMU and getting my 'useless' degree in Communications - Film Production with a Minor in Philosophy versus spending the same scratch on the Riddle extension/online stuff for a 'useful' degree pertinent to my career. In the end I just sucked it up and went and did my undergrad thesis and the two other classes at LMU, then I checked the box on all my apps.

It's all about equal opportunity, not equal results. My old colleague at USAJet argues about the merits of a college degree in aviation all the time on FI - he has a Masters and thinks that they should not matter at all. There is nothing anyone is saying that I haven't heard before, both on there and in indoc at TheJet. We live in a world where the employer can require one of they want - either deal with reality on reality's terms or look for another employer. So, check off the box if you can, if not make sure you have an app in at B6 and if you don't know anyone I'll send you my schedule or if you are in SoCal when I'm home or down in LGB we can meet, chat, network and etc. and then I'll be able to write you a letter of rec. (You'll be one up on me when I applied) Or you can always go online and get your degree - one class at a time, just like we all built up our hours one at a time.

You think this is bad, Imagine a world 15 years ago without this site where we would all be paying Kit Darby for his outdated made up junk and planning our careers based on crewroom gossip. At least we have a resource where we can all help each other.
 
At least Delta is being nice about the fact that they are looking out for your best interest.:) They still want you to have options should the company fold up. I mean, you might have to use that degree and get a job! As for the non-degree requesting companies, what will you do when you loose medical or worse case, company parks the iron?! Just saying :D

As much as many of you here want to be paid as a doctor and treated as a professional, is a degree too much to ask for?
 
I figure if I'm applying for a job that has particular requirements which I don't possess or asks questions of which I cannot answer or don't wish to, it may not be the right fit for me.

Every point of contact, every piece of correspondence and every traceable social media reaction is part of any companies evaluation process.

For example, @ATN_Pilot wouldn't hire me unless I had a facebook page. That's cool, but that might tell me that it might not be a good place for me to work. American wants to know if I'm a fighter pilot, I can answer "yes" or "no" and that's absolutely the amount of time I would spend thinking about the question. If JetBlue asked what type of donuts I liked, I'd say "glazed" and move on.

Any company worth its salt is going to look for a particular profile of employee. The sweaty guy with the deodorant rings under his arms, hasn't had a haircut in three months and has a flight kit emblazoned with a bunch of political rhetoric stickers may be able to outfly 99% of Americans pilots. But in some circles of the profession, it's about more than just flying airplanes.

Any major has 10,000-plus applications on file from qualified individuals. SouthernJets is hiring 130/month which is a little over 10% of the qualified applicants. They want to put you in one end of the machine, do some magic, and spit you out a fully qualified 717/737/MD88/A320 in about six weeks, up to speed and fully merged into the corporate culture they prescribe.

Just like wearing the hat. They want you to wear the hat. It's not even close to a microscopic return on my radar screen of things to opine about, but if it is, repeat after me, "If it's a big deal to you, it's probably not a place you want to work".
 
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Haven't there been a few guys hired without college degrees? I know of at least one hired via ssp.
 
L-16B said:
Haven't there been a few guys hired without college degrees? I know of at least one hired via ssp.
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I have no idea really. Think it's just an under the table agreement? Over not having a degree? Does it actually exist? Who knows.
 
BobDDuck said:
An item, number, feature or status that, through quantitative and qualitative analysis, research, historical look-back, gut feel or just PFM has been determined to be needed to do a certain job.



You are unqualified to work for Delta because you don't have the qualifications that are required. It has absolutely nothing to do with a technical basis but rather that the people making the decisions have decided that an college degree is a mandatory qualification.



A qualification can be fuzzy to qualify like 4 year degree in engineering vs. 4 year degree in underwater basketweaving. A credential is a standardized recognition of completing some task.
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While I agree with your assessment, I think Fox is trying to make the point that all of these requirements are only enforced when it's convenient to enforce them, and disappear rapidly when they don't have the pool of applicants required to fill seats. At that point, it stands to reason, "well, if you are willing to lower your minimums when the going gets tough, why the heck do you have those minimums in the first place?" At least, that's my take on his position.
 
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