National Airlines B747-400 Freighter (BCF) Down in Bagram, Afghanistan

[USMCmech]

Yeesh. A few reports I've seen have indicated not just run-of-the-mill plane parts on the runway... but things like wiring harnesses and engine parts (APU?), and other assorted things from the back. Additionally, indications that certain components stopped working between rotation and when the aircraft was destroyed. So perhaps either the bulkhead got punched through or it was the mother of all tail strikes.

It will be amazing to me if the investigators are able to determine a specific cause to this, given the post crash destruction. But like Murdoughnut pointed out, those guys are incredibly good at what they do, and if there is a needle in that haystack, they will find it.

If there is one thing I've learned in this business, it is to basically ignore any speculation by the media on airplane accidents. Reading anything into the dumbed down version that is reported on CNN will lead to false conclusions.

 

[Boris Badenov]

If it's unclear whether the straps were "cut" before or after takeoff, one might assume that he's not using "cut" in the same sense...I mean it's hard to imagine anyone voluntarily "cutting" the straps after takeoff.

 

[Hacker15e]

This posted over at BaseOps last night (obviously, not vouching for the authenticity of the information, just passing it on as it IS interesting):

http://www.flyingsquadron.com/forum...ash-at-bagram/page__view__findpost__p__350323

Spoke with one of the investigators on this accident and he let me know some facts. The aircraft had 5 MRAPS on it. The other contract carriers only carry 3. With 5 vehicles on the aircraft 2,3,&4 have ZERO forward and aft restraint. 1 has aft restraint and 5 has some forward restraint. The rear vehicle did break free and penetrate the aft bulkhead. Now this is what sucks. With that many vehicles, one shifting, even crashing through the bulkhead was not enough to cause this accident. They still would have had plenty of elavator authority. Unfortunately, when the vehicle slammed through the bulkhead it severed hydraulic lines to 2 separate systems, Took out the CVR and FDR (9 seconds after the rotate call), and finally did what actually brought the aircraft down. It hit the stabilizer trim unit and jammed it to 6 degrees none up, nothing they could do at that point.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I would be hesitant to believe anything that supposedly comes from a leak from an accident investigator.

 

[Skåning]

Update: NTSB released it's docket on the crash yesterday and it happened pretty much as @Hacker15e stated above

Unfortunately, when the vehicle slammed through the bulkhead it severed hydraulic lines to 2 separate systems, Took out the CVR and FDR (9 seconds after the rotate call), and finally did what actually brought the aircraft down. It hit the stabilizer trim unit and jammed it to 6 degrees none up, nothing they could do at that point.

http://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/hitlist.cfm?docketID=57043&CFID=460285&CFTOKEN=52257718

 

[ahw01]

That's quite an accident docket. The YIP Simulator profiles look interesting.

 

[dustoff17]

CVR transcript contains interesting conversation about previous loads having shifted and the broken straps on this flight.

At the very end of transcript, I could almost hear the silence......sad deal. RIP

 

[FM_Weasel]

Update: NTSB released it's docket on the crash yesterday and it happened pretty much as @Hacker15e stated above



http://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/hitlist.cfm?docketID=57043&CFID=460285&CFTOKEN=52257718

I'm not used to sifting through these dockets, where exactly did you find confirmation of this in the link?

 

[T/O w/FSII]

The CVR was tough. Talking about fatigue too. I thought the FAA said cargo pilots don't get fatigued?

 

[gotWXdagain]

The CVR was tough. Talking about fatigue too. I thought the FAA said cargo pilots don't get fatigued?

Only part 121 scheduled passenger pilots get fatigued.

 

[GolfChuck]

I'm not used to sifting through these dockets, where exactly did you find confirmation of this in the link?

I spent a good bit of time reading through this last night. In the 86 page operations group chairman's factual report, it is mentioned that a broken strap was found by a crewmember and discussed with the captain about 1:15 prior to departure. In the systems group chairman's factual report, it states that two hydraulic lines were severed, and that the jack screw controlling the HS angle of incidence was frozen and had what appeared to be impact damage from a rearward impact. I'd say those two things more or less confirm Hacker15e's story.

 

[GolfChuck]

In the ops report they also spend a good bit of focus on the loadmaster procedures, discrepancies between loadmaster SOP and flight crew SOP within the company, and discrepancies between loading procedures recommended by Boeing and what the company was actually doing in practice.

 

[tomokc]

Jury awards monetary damages to families of crewmembers: http://usmclife.com/2017/07/jury-aw...flying-improperly-packed-airplane-usmc-mraps/

 

[Bear]

https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/hitlist.cfm?docketID=57043&CFID=460285&CFTOKEN=52257718
I have zero qualifications to question the NTSB or other findings, yet wonder have such very detailed descriptions of the causes were gathered from this debris field. other images at http://tinyurl.com/yaaujx4m

 

[T/O w/FSII]

https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/hitlist.cfm?docketID=57043&CFID=460285&CFTOKEN=52257718
I have zero qualifications to question the NTSB or other findings

This is where I stopped reading your post.

 

[ahw01]

The expertise the NTSB has is amazing. I really wanted to do the 2 day course they offer in accident investigation.

The fact that their acousticians can for example, determine what power an engine was at just from listening to and analysing the background sound on a pilots' radio transmission, is pretty incredible.

Alex.

 

[trafficinsight]

The expertise the NTSB has is amazing. I really wanted to do the 2 day course they offer in accident investigation.

The fact that their acousticians can for example, determine what power an engine was at just from listening to and analysing the background sound on a pilots' radio transmission, is pretty incredible.

Alex.

It is pretty amazing.

For those folks who aren't conspiracy theory lunatics, the work they did on TWA800 was pretty incredible.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[Roger Roger]

It is pretty amazing.

For those folks who aren't conspiracy theory lunatics, the work they did on TWA800 was pretty incredible.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

I used to work for a guy who without fail disagreed with every NTSB conclusion. If the NTSB said pilot error, he said mechanical. If they said mechanical, he said pilot error. It got to the point where I would bring up various NTSB just to troll and set him off.

 

[///AMG]

The expertise the NTSB has is amazing. I really wanted to do the 2 day course they offer in accident investigation.

The fact that their acousticians can for example, determine what power an engine was at just from listening to and analysing the background sound on a pilots' radio transmission, is pretty incredible.

Alex.

Yeah, even back in the 1980's, those guys (the acoustics folks) did some pretty interesting work on the Air Florida flight 90 report.