Plane down. New Smyrna, FL

CFI A&P said:
Here is a story similar, about a different person than the deceased from this thread.

A couple of years ago I received a call from a young Asian woman looking for tailwheel instruction, she was looking for something different to do while she was attending a pilot mill school in FL. We did two flights, and she left. She didn't finish her endorsement. After a week or two I called a friend that was working at her school and asked what her story was. Turns out that after one of her unsatisfactory stage checks she asked if a particular sexual favor would change the outcome of her stage check. The check airman didn't accept the offer, and she didn't pass the stage check.

Two or so years later, I have seen her in the FBO and heard her on the radio. She's a CFI now. As much as I would like to believe that she received remedial training and progressed through the ratings, I'm not naive and have a good idea of what happened.
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Damn, I taught at the wrong flight school.
 
She wasnt a kid, she was 38 years old. Looking at her facebook page she has been very passionate about aviation!

Its been known that when in a high stress enviroment, the 2nd language is the first thing to go when the brain starts to load shed.

RIP

pilot.jpg
 
When I spoke to her about 2 weeks ago, she had already decided to purchase 80 hours of flight time at this airfield. I also know that she was then suggested to attain her CFI instead. As to why she had to come to FL, it is unknown-- that really bothers me personally. I know she has extensive networks with people in LA area. I also know that she was planning on getting that 80hrs in 10 days which is a lot of flying to do in 10 days.

I have heard that there is a small but tight community of flight schools operated by Japanese owners on the west coast where they would take care of their own people. Sometimes, these schools have websites in Japanese on a completely different domain. I have heard of a story such as an inspector from FAA revoking all certificates from an applicant after finding out that the applicant (usually happens in CFI checkride when FSDO inspector has to do the checkride) simply could not understand English.
 
Derg said:
That sounds rather "specious". I'd be careful about posting many identifying details because I would be all claws with a poofy tail if someone accused me of that.
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Most of my extensive CFIing experience was with Indians, but I flew with an older Chinese girl/woman (about 35) once. She had received her PPL through another local flight school days earlier and was excited to enroll in our fast track program to Commercial.

I did two flights with her and well, it was literally like lesson 2 with everything. Calling ground, taxiing, takeoff, climb etc. just horrible, an accident waiting to happen. She literally should have started PPL over. I'm in NO way inferring sexual favors were involved but it boggles my mind how she had a PPL.

I explained the situation to the manager and her refunded her money. Way too dangerous.
 
Ok guys, just hearing her voice, I could tell you she was Japanese not Chinese. Her name confirms it. Just pointing that out, it matters.

It's very sad, she sounded terrified. I feel for the controller too, I can't imagine the feeling of helplessness watching her crash in that situation. Really, some people just aren't meant to fly. I mean no disrespect, I'm just calling it what it is. You can score 100% on all the written tests and still be a terrible pilot. The worst pilot I've ever flown with personally is an ATP grad with about 500 hours. But at least he recognizes how bad he is and only flies with other pilots next to him(and insists they land). Still, he's a great guy, an enthusiast, and very smart so he does well with all the technical stuff. I see him getting a job and getting himself killed. Very sad that these people make it through.

Cherokee_Cruiser said:
One missing (obviously crashed somewhere) but we don't know what happened to it. Could have been intentional or could have been a oxygen/pressurization issue and end up like Payne Stewart's Learjet. One was shoot down by militants at the Ukraine border. And one recent A320 crashed into Java Sea, still under investigation. The world hasn't fared much better, and 2014 was actually the worst year since 2005 for aviation fatalities.
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Yep, those are the 3 from 2014 that were major news. But I'll add a Nepalese Twin Otter went down in February killing 18 people. That was found to be a lack of CRM leading to confusion which lead to CFIT. Then in July, a very new Transasia ATR went down in Taiwan killing 48 people, it crashed flying through a nasty storm right as an airport re-opened, but it's still under investigation. Still, that's 5 Asian airliners down with fatalities last year. How many did the rest of the world have? Two(in Mali and Iran). I'm well aware 4 of those are still under investigation and one was an act of terrorism, but just saying.
 
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HVYMETALDRVR said:
Most of my extensive CFIing experience was with Indians, but I flew with an older Chinese girl/woman (about 35) once. She had received her PPL through another local flight school days earlier and was excited to enroll in our fast track program to Commercial.

I did two flights with her and well, it was literally like lesson 2 with everything. Calling ground, taxiing, takeoff, climb etc. just horrible, an accident waiting to happen. She literally should have started PPL over. I'm in NO way inferring sexual favors were involved but it boggles my mind how she had a PPL.

I explained the situation to the manager and her refunded her money. Way too dangerous.
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Cool.
 
ChasenSFO said:
Yep, those are the 3 from 2014 that were major news. But I'll add a Nepalese Twin Otter went down in February killing 18 people. That was found to be a lack of CRM leading to confusion which lead to CFIT. Then in July, a very new Transasia ATR went down in Taiwan killing 48 people, it crashed flying through a nasty storm right as an airport re-opened, but it's still under investigation. Still, that's 5 Asian airliners down with fatalities last year. How many did the rest of the world have? Two(in Mali and Iran). I'm well aware 4 of those are still under investigation and one was an act of terrorism, but just saying.
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For 2014 yes. But not 2013. Or '12. Or '11. One year worth isn't enough to draw a conclusion. Though I get what you are driving at. I still think these days CRM isn't the same for a lot of Asian carriers as it is in the west.
 
ChasenSFO said:
only flies with other pilots next to him(and insists they land)
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Whaaaaat?

I have limited experience with ATP. I got my CMEL and CFI/CFII/MEI with them. I know a lot of folks have negative opinions about ATP, but while I saw some ADM/experience issues in some of the guys I met there, I never heard of a guy who was that bad. They pretty much all could fly a plane with the skill you'd expect at 200 or so hours.

I have seen a few folks through my career who still needed a lot of practice prior to a commercial checkride, and BFR guys who needed more training before I would sign them off, but a 500 hour guy who has others land?

This is not a normal "school x produces crappy pilots" thing. This is a "pilot following a dream but not accepting reality hid his fear of flying really well and somehow no one noticed along the way" thing.
 
After reading the whole thread, one more time, she was JAPANESE. Very different culture than Chinese despite everything I've read in this thread, and Japan has a great safety record and the pilot selection process is very, very strict and difficult.

Beefy McGee said:
This is not a normal "school x produces crappy pilots" thing. This is a "pilot following a dream but not accepting reality hid his fear of flying really well and somehow no one noticed along the way" thing.
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Knowing the guy, if he went to a normal FBO to get his certs, he would be a PPL at best. At best. The regimented training program on the fast track plus the confidence of having another pilot next to him on all the XCs are what got him through. I seriously think he would die if he went up alone, but I'm not worried because he knows better. I think he failed 4 checkrides going thru the ATP program.

Cherokee_Cruiser said:
For 2014 yes. But not 2013. Or '12. Or '11. One year worth isn't enough to draw a conclusion. Though I get what you are driving at. I still think these days CRM isn't the same for a lot of Asian carriers as it is in the west.
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Fair enough. But if you want to include how many very serious write offs occurred in Asia(landing short/over-runs) in 2013/14, the numbers are still much higher than the US and EU. Lion Air alone wrote off what, 3 brand new 737-900ERs in the last 2 years? Besides, 2014 is what matters. The rest of the world got safer and safer, Asia did the opposite.
 
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ChasenSFO said:
After reading the whole thread, one more time, she was JAPANESE. Very different culture than Chinese despite everything I've read in this thread, and Japan has a great safety record and the pilot selection process is very, very strict and difficult.


Knowing the guy, if he went to a normal FBO to get his certs, he would be a PPL at best. At best. The regimented training program on the fast track plus the confidence of having another pilot next to him on all the XCs are what got him through. I seriously think he would die if he went up alone, but I'm not worried because he knows better. I think he failed 4 checkrides going thru the ATP program.


Fair enough. But if you want to include how many very serious write offs occurred in Asia(landing short/over-runs) in 2013/14, the numbers are still much higher than the US and EU. Lion Air alone wrote off what, 3 brand new 737-900ERs in the last 2 years? Besides, 2014 is what matters. The rest of the world got safer and safer, Asia did the opposite.
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I agree for 2014. But as we both seem to imply it was just this year. I don't recall all Lion Air incidents but there was one that went off the runway that I can think of. Adam Air was a LCC in Indonesia that had a high profile crash when ADIR units failed and the crew stopped paying attention the aircraft's flight path. It spun and then the recovery was botched. They pulled back and fully loaded the horizontal stabilizer with high Gs and it snapped off.

IMO, this is a problem with the newer growing LCC airlines of Asia. Personally I'd feel very safe on all the big ones - Singapore, Thai, and yes even Malaysian Airlines.
 
Did anyone checkout this flighttimebuilding website? They obviously sell blocks and require a daily expected usage of 6 hrs per day! Talk about pressuring pilots to fly and get the hours done. That has to count for an external pressure. Who wants go to over budget at those costs? She just landed at 4pm and then went back up at 8pm.

"
After this time you are then the proud “owner” of the aircraft till you are done with your time block which we do look for a minimum of 6 hours per day or approximately 36 hours per week
"
 
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