117 and fuel stops

ASpilot2be

ASpilot2be

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I havent really found an answer to this, but do fuel stops count as additional legs in a day?

I know if you divert in flight it doesnt count. But what if they add on before you leave but have already started your FDP?
 
ASpilot2be said:
OK. I wasnt sure if thats how it worked. I thought it was based on what you were scheduled for.
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So if I planned to do 2 legs for the day, and the company called and assigned 2 more would I only count that as 2? If you read the interp on diversions I think this becomes more clear.
 
z987k said:
So if I planned to do 2 legs for the day, and the company called and assigned 2 more would I only count that as 2? If you read the interp on diversions I think this becomes more clear.
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No, that would become four legs. I was under the impression that if before you left they added an intermediate fuel stop it wouldnt become another leg.
 
ASpilot2be said:
No, that would become four legs. I was under the impression that if before you left they added an intermediate fuel stop it wouldnt become another leg.
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You know I can't find the relevant interpretation regarding diverting and 117. I swore there was something to that effect last year but I can't find it. Until then, I'm not sure that I can actually intelligently comment on it.
 
z987k said:
You know I can't find the relevant interpretation regarding diverting and 117. I swore there was something to that effect last year but I can't find it. Until then, I'm not sure that I can actually intelligently comment on it.
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I found something about saying diversions arent an additional leg. However I havent seen anything explicitly saying that a planned fuel stop doesnt count either.
 
ASpilot2be said:
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/pol_adjudication/agc200/Part117/Part117_Interps/media/Flight Duty Clarification.pdf

On 14172 it mentions that a diversion doesnt necessarily count as a flight segment, it still counts as part of FDP.
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Ok, that offers some guidance. Base on what I read on that page, I would say if you diverted for fuel, that would be a diversion. If you plan a fuel stop, that would be a leg. The only instance that something does not count as a "flight segment" is a diversion, so I can't see how they would say that a fuel stop is not a flight segment.
"This is because a flight segment consists of a takeoff and a landing."
 
z987k said:
Ok, that offers some guidance. Base on what I read on that page, I would say if you diverted for fuel, that would be a diversion. If you plan a fuel stop, that would be a leg.
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Thats kind of what I have been thinking. But I havent seen anything explicitly say that. I have seen mention of fuel stops. But no mention as to whether it is planned or a diversion.
 
The old rule was that as long as the flight number didn't change during a diversion, it wasn't a "new schedule" and legal to start/legal to finish applied to flight time limits (how I ended up blocking 10.1 hours one day), however DT limits (back then 16 hours unless coming off reduced rest) still applied.

My understanding now is that a SCHEDULED (ie, you know about it before taking off) fuel stop will split the flight into two legs and count against your FT and DT limits. However if you encounter nasty winds enroute or something else that requires a stop for fuel it is considered a diversion and treated as such for both FT and DT limits.
 
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