Don't spin a Citation

jtrain609 said:
Are you actually going to argue that airliners stall and spin in as often as GA aircraft operated by hobbyists? I'm pretty sure there were a few stall/spin accidents in the last month alone with a GA aircraft, against one hull loss due to an American part 121 stalling an aircraft in the last decade.
Click to expand...
While I do agree with you, there were A LOT of 121 aircraft that have stalled at high altitude between the years of 2007-2012. So much so, that the FAA mandated high altitude stalls in recurrent training for a large regional airline. The reason why no one heard about them is because ASAP's were filed and it was kept under wraps. There was an incident far worse than that at the same regional where everyone nearly died because of pilot error, but because of NDA's no ones allowed to talk about it in public. If the media got a hold of that story we'd never hear the end of it.
 
mrivc211 said:
While I do agree with you, there were A LOT of 121 aircraft that have stalled at high altitude between the years of 2007-2012. So much so, that the FAA mandated high altitude stalls in recurrent training for a large regional airline. The reason why no one heard about them is because ASAP's were filed and it was kept under wraps. There was an incident far worse than that at the same regional where everyone nearly died because of pilot error, but because of NDA's no ones allowed to talk about it in public. If the media got a hold of that story we'd never hear the end of it.
Click to expand...
Sounds like an open, enlightened culture of safety where learning is encouraged to me...
 
JordanD said:
Even some CFIs. I had an older CFI say he was going to follow me in, then say he lost sight of me. Next thing I see he's turning final in front of me at a higher altitude. I let him know he cut me off in a "meh, no biggie, stuff happens" tone and he goes off about how I screw everyone up by flying such a wide pattern, never mind I'm going a good 30 knots faster than he is.

Then I'm putting the plane away and he comes over and explains he was mad because his student was about to solo and I made her go around and she'd never had to do that before. Uhhhh..... Doesn't give me a lot of faith in the training people are getting.
Click to expand...

That CFI is a ! Most of them are! When hits the fan, its always someone else's fault! Never theirs! If he lost sight of you, he should have waited til either he saw you again or u announced you were short final before turning base! You don't turn base knowing someone is in front of you!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
One guy i know, he instructs at one of those big flight schools that do Chinese contracts. One day, he took a multi-engine student out and they gear-up a light twin. He even got sent to do a 709 ride with the FAA. Guess what , he blamed it on the fact that the student was Chinese and that he was incompetent!!! Who is the instructor here?
 
diverdriver said:
That CFI is a ! Most of them are! When hits the fan, its always someone else's fault! Never theirs! If he lost sight of you, he should have waited til either he saw you again or u announced you were short final before turning base! You don't turn base knowing someone is in front of you!
Click to expand...

Keep pushing them meat missiles out the door bud. Your learning a lot about flying and more importantly, what a good instructor is ding that. Because obviously, we are all complete idiots, and have no clue what we are doing. But the guy with 1000 his of VFR, climbing to 10k feet, then turning around and landing sure does.
 
mshunter said:
Keep pushing them meat missiles out the door bud. Your learning a lot about flying and more importantly, what a good instructor is ding that. Because obviously, we are all complete idiots, and have no clue what we are doing. But the guy with 1000 his of VFR, climbing to 10k feet, then turning around and landing sure does.
Click to expand...

http://www.abc15.com/news/region-ph...tion-flight-school-linked-to-multiple-crashes

OBVIOUSLY, y'all know what you are doing! Some FINE instructing out there
 
xargos said:
I saw this placard in a Pa-14.It worked for me : I didn't roll it. I didn't spin it.
f1y3gi.jpg
Click to expand...
Don't do anything stupid.
or
Don't do anything, stupid.

Commas save lives.
 
@Seggy I'm not sure. That was before my time. We generally monday morning QB that accident during TEM.
There are so many holes in that case that should have prevented it.
 
Roger Roger said:
Easy hoss. My comment was directed at the double standard where 91 guys who do it are labeled incompetent, but when a big jet crew does it (our flies into a seawall in similar circumstances) they're "victims of a system" and anyone who suggests they were incompetent has "an unjust safety culture".
Click to expand...

When we have multiple versions of Charles Yeager on here saying 'it can never happen to them' I really question the validity of their opinion.
 
Nark said:
@Seggy I'm not sure. That was before my time. We generally monday morning QB that accident during TEM.
There are so many holes in that case that should have prevented it.
Click to expand...

Page 21....

http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AAR0801.pdf

It was also in the probable cause statement.

http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Pages/AAR0801.aspx

Do you still have an attendance policy?

Make sure when y'all are discussing the accident your company takes their share of the responsibility. Gets back to that safety culture folks on here don't get.
 
We have implemented a fatigue policy because of that accident, however I think it's evolved a little bit because of 117. I haven't been on property since the change, so some of the other RAHer's could be more explicit.
 
Nark said:
We have implemented a fatigue policy because of that accident, however I think it's evolved a little bit because of 117. I haven't been on property since the change, so some of the other RAHer's could be more explicit.
Click to expand...

Do you guys still have an occurrence based sick policy?
 
diverdriver said:
That CFI is a ! Most of them are! When hits the fan, its always someone else's fault! Never theirs! If he lost sight of you, he should have waited til either he saw you again or u announced you were short final before turning base! You don't turn base knowing someone is in front of you!
Click to expand...
JP?!
 
diverdriver said:
http://www.abc15.com/news/region-ph...tion-flight-school-linked-to-multiple-crashes

OBVIOUSLY, y'all know what you are doing! Some FINE instructing out there
Click to expand...

Yeah, you're right. ALL CFI's are complete tool bags, just like all diver driver's are.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/03/us/wisconsin-skydivers-crash/

To say that all flight instructors are idiots, among a group of pilots? Get real dude. The majority of us ARE flight instructors. So I guess the majority of us are jerks too. Nice net you just cast there.
 
mshunter said:
Yeah, you're right. ALL CFI's are complete tool bags, just like all diver driver's are.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/03/us/wisconsin-skydivers-crash/

To say that all flight instructors are idiots, among a group of pilots? Get real dude. The majority of us ARE flight instructors. So I guess the majority of us are jerks too. Nice net you just cast there.
Click to expand...

I didn't say all CFI, I said most CFI. READ!

Skydiving is dangerous! Thats why we all sign waivers the second we walk in. I don't remember signing any waivers when I first received instruction.

Jump planes are usually old and beat up and lack equipments. Big school airplanes can be some of the newest and best equipped aircraft in the world of GA! Flight instructors are like high school teachers, they are supposed to set an example. For an instructor to not take responsibilty for his action is like saying I rear-ended your car and it's your fault because you suddenly stop in front of me.
 
diverdriver said:
I didn't say all CFI, I said most CFI. READ!

Skydiving is dangerous! Thats why we all sign waivers the second we walk in. I don't remember signing any waivers when I first received instruction.

Jump planes are usually old and beat up and lack equipments. Big school airplanes can be some of the newest and best equipped aircraft in the world of GA! Flight instructors are like high school teachers, they are supposed to set an example. For an instructor to not take responsibilty for his action is like saying I rear-ended your car and it's your fault because you suddenly stop in front of me.
Click to expand...
I wish the school I instruct at had some of the newest and best equipped aircraft :(, but seriously I never understood guys who always have to be right when it comes to their students. i always tell my students " I make a mistake every 5 mins":sarcasm:. They seem to have more confidence than when your spew out BS.
 
Phil Schuyler said:
Don't do anything stupid.
or
Don't do anything, stupid.

Commas save lives.
Click to expand...
That's the basis of my patented, two step program in airplane flyin'!!:
"Don't do nothin' stoopid.
Don't hit nothin', stoopid."
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top