Don't spin a Citation

Joshwa said:
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/bulletins/january_2015/cessna_525a_citation_cj2___n380cr_.cfm

Especially not if your wife and 3 pet dogs are in the back. This one is bona fide, and pretty scary. Another advert for not allowing somebody averaging 1 hour a week near single pilot IFR in a jet.

The photos of the wing spars are pretty scary as are the numbers - rolling to 115°, pitching 89° nose down, and 4.5G pullout!
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The longer I fly professionally, the more I start to think that anything larger than a Cub should be operated by a professional, and not a doctor or lawyer with the money to buy a jet.

Oh, and user fees.

/Rabble.
 
Roger Roger said:
Yeah, because the pros never stall an airplane leading to a hull loss.
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Are you actually going to argue that airliners stall and spin in as often as GA aircraft operated by hobbyists? I'm pretty sure there were a few stall/spin accidents in the last month alone with a GA aircraft, against one hull loss due to an American part 121 stalling an aircraft in the last decade.
 
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lucky to be alive. Another reminder of the importance of flying high performance aircraft with 2 pilots (among many other things)
 
Climbing in VS with you head up your ass looking at your tablet will do that. 118KIAS above FL420?, I have never flown a CJ but wow that is some scary stuff.
 
How come I have never seen such a nicely detailed NTSB report? I feel as if I learned a thing or two after reading through the report. Not only about airmanship, but also about some of the systems etc.
 
jtrain609 said:
The longer I fly professionally, the more I start to think that anything larger than a Cub should be operated by a professional, and not a doctor or lawyer with the money to buy a jet.

Oh, and user fees.

/Rabble.
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I'm with you there. Flying passengers into some of the smaller airports we fly to on a clear VFR day (especially on a weekend) makes me want to pull my hair out.

I suppose the pure idiocy I hear/see from weekend warriors on an alarmingly regular basis has jaded me.

Oh, and get off my lawn!
 
Apophis said:
I'm with you there. Flying passengers into some of the smaller airports we fly to on a clear VFR day (especially on a weekend) makes me want to pull my hair out.

I suppose the pure idiocy I hear/see from weekend warriors on an alarmingly regular basis has jaded me.

Oh, and get off my lawn!
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Even some CFIs. I had an older CFI say he was going to follow me in, then say he lost sight of me. Next thing I see he's turning final in front of me at a higher altitude. I let him know he cut me off in a "meh, no biggie, stuff happens" tone and he goes off about how I screw everyone up by flying such a wide pattern, never mind I'm going a good 30 knots faster than he is.

Then I'm putting the plane away and he comes over and explains he was mad because his student was about to solo and I made her go around and she'd never had to do that before. Uhhhh..... Doesn't give me a lot of faith in the training people are getting.
 
jtrain609 said:
Are you actually going to argue that airliners stall and spin in as often as GA aircraft operated by hobbyists? I'm pretty sure there were a few stall/spin accidents in the last month alone with a GA aircraft, against one hull loss due to an American part 121 stalling an aircraft in the last decade.
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Easy hoss. My comment was directed at the double standard where 91 guys who do it are labeled incompetent, but when a big jet crew does it (our flies into a seawall in similar circumstances) they're "victims of a system" and anyone who suggests they were incompetent has "an unjust safety culture".
 
jtrain609 said:
Are you actually going to argue that airliners stall and spin in as often as GA aircraft operated by hobbyists? I'm pretty sure there were a few stall/spin accidents in the last month alone with a GA aircraft, against one hull loss due to an American part 121 stalling an aircraft in the last decade.
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I'm not calling you out specifically, but I always get the feeling of apparent arrogance from 121 pilots. Thinking that their stuff doesn't stink because they've attended a 'rigorous training program.'
Not speaking for @Roger Roger but there are plenty if airline pilots that have bent metal for being stupid.
We have a notable case at Shuttle in Cleveland. And I'm sure your FOQA/ASAP files at Delta-mini have the same bonehead mistakes that lead to bent metal.

'Professional' is an attitude. Not some 5 step process the military tells me it is, or what my 121 training tells me it is.
There are plenty of professional private pilots.
 
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