Student tracking tool

av8tr1

av8tr1

"Never tell me the odds!"
Fellow CFIs

I am building a tool for CFIs to track student progress. It will be online and will store student records for as long as you want. Think of it like an online log book but instead of hours it will track student performance to the PTS along with notes and commentary about the training. You'll eventually be able to track your lesson plans and individual student performance as they progress. There will be a function for students to carry student records over to new instructors.

Trying to decide if I would charge for this or not. In the meantime got a couple of questions for you

What would you pay for a tool like this?
What functionality would you want to see?
 
As a CFI it's unlikely that I'd pay anything for it. Jepps record folders work fine.

If I was FBO owner/manager then I'd probably pay. Not sure how much, depends on how busy the school is.
 
nosehair said:
Hmm..."track student performance to PTS standards"...what does that mean?
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Pretty straightforward. They are grading systems that are based on the degree to which a student meets, exceeds or falls short of the PTS requirements. Kind of like grading systems in other areas that are based on performance standards. I've seen a few different types, some of which are pretty silly in their complexity. I've also seen others that seem to be an excuse for "teaching to the test" and no further.

But the basic idea is to let the student have a familiar way of tracking progress toward a goal.
 
hammerhat said:
As a CFI it's unlikely that I'd pay anything for it. Jepps record folders work fine.

If I was FBO owner/manager then I'd probably pay. Not sure how much, depends on how busy the school is.
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At one time I put together a Jepp-style spreadsheet (some version of it is available on my old Tripod website at http://midlifeflight.tripod.com/cfi_stuff/index.htm). I didn't use it for grading (although it could be used that way). I would just put an "x" in a covered task, which would black out the box; especially with my students who tended to be professionals who took lessons far apart, it was a way for both of us to get a snapshot view of what was covered and what tasks had not been reviewed in a while.
trainingRec.PNG
 
nosehair said:
Hmm..."track student performance to PTS standards"...what does that mean?
Click to expand...

What Midlifeflyer said. It will be a system to track the steps you expect a student to accomplish during training. This provides the student with task and performance expectations. Gives the CFI a tool to track the student performance and give the students a feedback record.

One of my pet peeves I see is a lot of CFIs don't track student progress well if at all. So I hear these conversations a lot. Instructor to student "so what are we going to work on today?" I heard this a lot during my civilian training. A student should never hear this. So using a tool to track performance would be a great help to the industry.

Personally I don't like the Jeppesen training folders. They just don't provide enough for good record keeping even though I know most of the industry uses is.
 
Well, yeah, I don't think the Jeppsen folders, or any other that I've seen, do an adequate job of "tracking".
My question was meant to ask for a more detailed description.
How have you improved over those typical systems which really only meet paper requirements, but are not really a good tracking tool.
 
Its a complete CRM system (Customer relationship management not to be confused with Crew resource management). Instructor creates master account with lesson plan topics. Each lesson plan topic has a space for the instructor to put notes for the student to review. For example, lesson 13 Navigation. The instructor sees his/her complete lesson plan. Student sees, review material, performance expectations, recommended study material, and if it is a continuation of the lesson, notes from the instructor on prior performance.

After each lesson the Instructor can enter notes from the flight for a training record for both the instructor and the student to review.

Then when each new student signs up they create an account for the student that provides an online outline of the steps from lesson one to checkride. The student then knows what each step will be in the process. The instructor can provide points in the outline when students need to do tasks outside the training environment. Like between lesson 3 and 4, get a student pilot certificate. And the system can provide recommendations for local AMEs. After each lesson, the student can look at the notes related to the lesson and know how they are doing and what to expect next lesson.

There there will be tools for tracking students post checkride. Giving instructors the opportunity to market their continued services to students. For example, instructor obtains MEI, instructor can send out a notification to former students that they can now teach multi engine instruments to students who want to continue lessons with the instructor.
 
you could pretty easily create a google doc with the PTS items in it, and copy the template for each student and then mark off progress in the spreadsheet. What's the value of the app over a spreadsheet? I would think it would only be valuable if it created value on top of a basic check sheet.
 
There is no comparison. This isn't an online spreadsheet. I am talking about a complete customer relationship tool where you can keep all sorts of data and track current and former students. The main concept is the ability to track student progress (for both student and instructor). So in the system each student is assigned a course (Private Pilot for example) then the student will be able to log in and see all of the lessons from start to approval for checkride. Included will be the ability to review notes from the instructor. So as the student progresses, they will be able to log in after the flight and see what notes the instructor might have (Like areas to improve or things to prepare for next lesson).

From an instructor standpoint they will have something better than a spreadsheet to track student progress. Instead of check boxes on an online spreadsheet they will have a complete record of the flight to include lesson, notes, hobbs time, flight plan, airports, etc. But then on top of that a complete record keeping system for students.

Currently with the tool functionality exists for
  • Contact management for Instructors, students, and flight schools
  • Skill and outcomes based assessment. (List all the steps and expectations for completing PTS)
  • Associate groups of skills with courses (private pilot course with short and soft field landing skills)
  • Assess student skills through a gradebook-style interface
  • Track the history of student skill achievement across multiple courses (Student records from day one to CFII checkride)
  • Create goals and track progress collaboratively between students and instructors
  • Generate reports by student, course, or instructor.
I am asking you guys what you would find valuable beyond just a spreadsheet (besides what is listed above).
 
Cessna already does this, so any Cessna Pilot Center school/instructor probably wouldn't pay for it. It's fully integrated with their ground school and flight training syllabus. Their user interface needs a LOT of work, but ultimately, all of the functionality you describe is there.
 
if you are doing 141 you would also have this available.
I'd probably pay .99c and that is based on the fact that i have barely bought anything more expensive that that... Ever
 
Also, it would need to be very customizable and not PTS based. Remember:

"Instructors should not introduce the minimum acceptable standards for passing the check ride when introducing lesson tasks. The minimum standards to pass the check ride should be introduced during the “3 hours of preparation” for the check ride. Keep the PTS in the proper perspective, with emphasis on the Practical Test Standard (PTS) increasing later in the training."
 
doog said:
Also, it would need to be very customizable and not PTS based. Remember:

"Instructors should not introduce the minimum acceptable standards for passing the check ride when introducing lesson tasks. The minimum standards to pass the check ride should be introduced during the “3 hours of preparation” for the check ride. Keep the PTS in the proper perspective, with emphasis on the Practical Test Standard (PTS) increasing later in the training."
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Ideally, one would have the ability to substitute the school's higher than PTS standards for maneuvers and add tasks not in the PTS - I know many instrument programs that insist on steep turns under the hood as a valuable task despite being removed from the PTS for a good number of years.

But I really don't have a problem grading based on PTS standards from the very beginning, incorporating the fact that it is a "minimum acceptable standard." For example, the Private PTS standard for level cruise flight is altitude, within 200 feet and headings within 15°. I think a lot of us would agree that's a lot of leeway. But I don't see a big problem with it if it's clear that meeting that standard only earns a pilot a "C" in a traditional A-D&F system or a "2" in a 4.0 system. Few want to be considered an average "C" student, and pilots have bigger egos than most. Yeah, there will always be those who are happy to try to coast and just get by, but there are other ways to deal with them. For a much larger group it can be used as a prompt to superior performance.
 
Hey Guys,
Thanks for all the great suggestions.

Yes, the PTS is fully customizable. I will pre populate the tasks with the FAA PTS but anyone can add or subtract to the PTS at any point. I have always used PTS as a general term and not specific to the FAA unless one says "FAA PTS". I've trained at both 61 and 141 schools and all have used the term PTS to refer to their own testing standards. So some confusion might have come from that.

However one issue I am running into is that as it is implemented now, each school would have to have it's own implementation of the tool to support changes to the PTS. I am looking at other ways to implement this but doing it through the database greatly increases CPU cycles where it will become cost prohibitive.

I wasn't aware Cessna was already offering something like this. I'll need to see it but it might change things drastically. I could never compete with Cessna nor would I want to. The goal wasn't to get rich from this, I only want to make enough to cover my costs for hosting.

My real goal was to offer a tool to make student success easier for instructors. So many instructors put the least amount of effort into managing their students. I believe its become a turn off for students. I personally had instructors ask me the "what are we working on today" questions. I didn't stay with them long. So the hope eventually will be a complete turn key system where everything is provided for the student and instructor to follow from start to finish.

But if Cessna already offers this.......
 
av8tr1 said:
Hey Guys,
I wasn't aware Cessna was already offering something like this. I'll need to see it but it might change things drastically. I could never compete with Cessna nor would I want to. The goal wasn't to get rich from this, I only want to make enough to cover my costs for hosting.
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The Cessna program was created by King Schools and is, as I recall, only offered to Cessna Pilot Centers. It follows the King/Cessna "Cleared for Takeoff" flight and ground syllabus (ground includes student labs). It's not so much tracking software as it is tracking software dedicated to a specific training program.
 
I agree, didn't realise the PTS was only to be used 3 hours out until CFI school. Usually most schools expect the student to buy one right off the bat.

Also steep turns under the hood, good for proficiency, DPE can ask for it, but not fail you on it (I would hope)

Alex.
 
I thought you were looking for an actual student tracking device. Like gluing a beacon to their tail or throwing a SPOT into the glove box.
A friend of mine got disoriented on solo, came back at dawn/night, rolled halfway to the tie-down and the engine died.
His instructor was not amused, and mumbled back then, he'd use a tracking device of sorts to keep track of this guy.
I know the pilot should be ready for solo etc etc. but surely having a terminal with a "call to a friend" handy could improve safety in some cases.
 
Spot has that functionality. Many flight schools use it already. And he could have texted his instructor when he got in trouble.
 
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