Seniority List Totals?

ATN_Pilot said:
I'm not talking "super fast," my friend. I'm talking a period of time measured in less than decades. Plural. If you were lucky, you'd upgrade by the time you turned 50. Go read @Derg's threads about how much he's enjoyed the job after upgrading. Sitting in that left seat is a very big part of QOL.
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QOL - I'd rather be a line holding FO out west with 18 days off which is easily attainable at SWA vs. a commuting reserve captain in NYC for Delta. Also how quickly could one hold a line on the 737 in LA for Delta. I imagine it's not fast. You can have that left seat! I'll take yours at SWA.

Of course we can agree to disagree.
 
Derg said:
I haven't had less than 17 days off after upgrading, except for one month.

And I'm DTW-based and a lineholder.

And have only sat one month of reserve my entire airline career.

2003 called, they want their career assumptions back! :)
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2003? Have you seen the lines at SWA?! They average 17.8 days off from the bottom line up in most bases. Min is at least 15/16 depending on the month. There doesn't need to be massive growth to get cushy at SWA, you just need to live our west, lol.
 
USN88 said:
2003? Have you seen the lines at SWA?! They average 17.8 days off from the bottom line up in most bases. Min is at least 15/16 depending on the month. There doesn't need to be massive growth to get cushy at SWA, you just need to live our west, lol.
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That's cool and I'm glad you're excited about that, but I want more in the little time I have left before my timer runs out.
 
Hey, I'm just trying to help you out. Ignore at your own risk.

Think about it this way. When you were graduating high school, I was already a 717 copilot. And according to the seniority calculator, I've still got another 14 years until I can hold bottom reserve captain in Oakland. That's a total of 22 years. The seniority calculator shows the same expectations for a newhire today.

I just don't want you to be sitting in the right seat after 10 years there, still unable to consistently hold weekends and holidays off, saying to yourself "man, I really wish I had listened to that prick on Jetcareers."
 
Derg said:
It's been the time of my life.

I had a very plush job seeing the world from the right seat of a 767 and a 330.

Sunsets over the deserts of Iran, sunrises over Finland about to hit Metric airspace. Layovers eating "Red Red" (with goat!) in Africa to 48 hour layovers on the French Riviera with an ocean-view suite to drinking 1 Euro beers and tapas on the Costa Del Sol under the whispering palm trees on the beach — but nothing on Earth beats "command".

And when I get bored, which I will (we all do), I'll go fly bigger jets in the left seat and fatten myself on tapas, latkes and schweinehaxe.
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That sounds... Awesome.
 
USN88 said:
2003? Have you seen the lines at SWA?! They average 17.8 days off from the bottom line up in most bases. Min is at least 15/16 depending on the month. There doesn't need to be massive growth to get cushy at SWA, you just need to live our west, lol.
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I think you're accustomed to the garbage schedules at your current place to the point that you may have forgotten that block 85 hours a month is not normal.

Just keep that in mind.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Hey, I'm just trying to help you out. Ignore at your own risk.

Think about it this way. When you were graduating high school, I was already a 717 copilot. And according to the seniority calculator, I've still got another 14 years until I can hold bottom reserve captain in Oakland. That's a total of 22 years. The seniority calculator shows the same expectations for a newhire today.

I just don't want you to be sitting in the right seat after 10 years there, still unable to consistently hold weekends and holidays off, saying to yourself "man, I really wish I had listened to that prick on Jetcareers."
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Honest question, does that caculatuin assume zero fleet growth?

If they expand to Latin America like it appears they are I'm sure they won't be able to without growing something. Anyway that's a discussion for a different thread. I hope you really do get on with Delta or whomever you're looking at getting on with.
 
Nick said:
I think you're accustomed to the garbage schedules at your current place to the point that you may have forgotten that block 85 hours a month is not normal.

Just keep that in mind.
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Lol! Ya, no kidding. Good friend over there showed me their lines and most blocked anywhere from 68-77hrs for 90-95hrs pay or TFP. That was for OAK.
 
USN88 said:
Lol! Ya, no kidding. Good friend over there showed me their lines and most blocked anywhere from 68-77hrs for 90-95hrs pay or TFP. That was for OAK.
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You realize that 95 TFP isn't that good, right? You have to do the conversion. That's the equivalent of 82 hours credit at the other airlines.
 
USN88 said:
Honest question, does that caculatuin assume zero fleet growth?
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Of course. I think zero growth is actually optimistic over the long term for SWA. I expect them to shrink slightly, for two reasons:

1. Another merger is coming. With all of the legacy carriers now hitched up, SWA is too small to be competitive long-term. They will scoop up JetBlue, Hawaiian, Alaska, or Spirit. It's just a matter of when. Sometime within the next 10 years is almost a certainty. And as everyone here who has been through a merger can tell you, merger "synergies" is just code for "shrinkage." The combined carrier is never as big as the sum of its original parts.

2. SWA is the only airline with no code share. The probability of that continuing for the long term approaches zero.

But even if there was some growth, it doesn't change the upgrade projections by much. You may upgrade in 20 years instead of 22. The problem is the incredibly young seniority list when compared to other carriers.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
You realize that 95 TFP isn't that good, right? You have to do the conversion. That's the equivalent of 82 hours credit at the other airlines.
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The ability to cram 95TFP or 82 hours like you mention into 12-13 days of work is pretty fantastic. I'm sure it's safe to say those average line values are higher during the summer months as well.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Of course. I think zero growth is actually optimistic over the long term for SWA. I expect them to shrink slightly, for two reasons:

1. Another merger is coming. With all of the legacy carriers now hitched up, SWA is too small to be competitive long-term. They will scoop up JetBlue, Hawaiian, Alaska, or Spirit. It's just a matter of when. Sometime within the next 10 years is almost a certainty. And as everyone here who has been through a merger can tell you, merger "synergies" is just code for "shrinkage." The combined carrier is never as big as the sum of its original parts.

2. SWA is the only airline with no code share. The probability of that continuing for the long term approaches zero.

But even if there was some growth, it doesn't change the upgrade projections by much. You may upgrade in 20 years instead of 22. The problem is the incredibly young seniority list when compared to other carriers.
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All valid points for sure. I think you're right about number 2.
 
That's assuming they don't raise the retirement age to 67 too. That will place the left seat completely out of reach for guys like me who started in our forties... which is fine, provided they raise the bar on FO pay and work rules to remain industry standard or better. I don't need to upgrade to be happy. I would like to see some improvements in reserve QOL, improved schedule flexibility for lineholders, and some sort of cap and bank system so I can more accurately forecast my pay every month of the year.
 
Seggy said:
Also new hires at United can go to LAX and SFO. Guess your not interested in them.
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I am! I am! Actually I'm only interested in LAX, SFO, DEN, IAH, ORD, IAD, or EWR.

To each their own. I have no desire to work for SWA. I would personally like the ability to bid off equipment and try something new when I get bored (like @Derg said) and then have the ability to upgrade and try something else new.
 
Seggy said:
Well....I know a guy who got LAX on the 737 as a new hire for Delta.

Also new hires at United can go to LAX and SFO. Guess your not interested in them.
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Sure I am! I'll I'm saying is that for the most part the western part of the country is junior at SWA. That's huge for me because I have zero desire to live anywhere east of Colorado. United has bases in LA and SFO but when's the last time a new hire was awarded either of those? However, SFO had a bunch of 737 vacancies I heard. I'm sure new hires in LA or SFO will be commonplace at the majors soon enough, and that'll be great!

I think it's Kind of strange how people seem to get all up in arms when someone would rather go to Southwest or Alaska over Delta, United or AA. Everyone has different desires for their career and QOL has a different meaning to everyone. I think I'd truly happy spending a career at Southwest, and it's been a goal for sometime-- it may never pan out or I may get there and hate it. Who knows.
 
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