Excellent news concerning Drones

Itchy said:
Why would I think that? I just reflected on what I think would at least seriously attenuate the problem.
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You said "if something really bad happens". Just wondering what that will be. I spend ~120 hours a month sitting in airplanes. It is my life and the lives of thousands of other pilots, and millions of people that fly every day that these things are endangering. How many people have to be hurt and killed in your "something really bad happens" scenario for the public to wake up and realize that they pose a risk?

Answer this - how many lives is your little niche hobby worth?
 
tbstanto said:
You said "if something really bad happens". Just wondering what that will be. I spend ~120 hours a month sitting in airplanes. It is my life and the lives of thousands of other pilots, and millions of people that fly every day that these things are endangering. How many people have to be hurt and killed in your "something really bad happens" scenario for the public to wake up and realize that they pose a risk?

Answer this - how many lives is your little niche hobby worth?
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I think most of us agree that one shouldn't be plowing thru the skies at thousands of feet burning holes in the sky with an rc plane. I don't see anyone advocating for that, here, or most anywhere.

However I also think most of us are realistic enough to realize that they pose practically no danger to us and our families (remember we are all pilots here, mostly doing it for money) when folks do it at the lower altitudes. Birds pose an infinitely higher danger to us than rc equipment does.

As far as niche hobby goes I think you guys have no appreciation for the huge tech base these things are attracting. There is a huge base of STEM kids growing up, along with a large amount of Silicon Valley types dabbling in these things. This is a great example of the government stifling innovation that will put the US behind other countries.

A blanket >3 miles from airports and <400' would keep them away from practically all manned aircraft and allow the industry to grow and innovate. Which is basically what the FAA has in place now for RC equipment.
 
OK, how would you like it enforced? Who is going to police this? How about a policy requiring a technological enhancement on the quadcopters that prevents them from flying higher than 400'?

And it does pose a danger in current form. Kids flying these at 3000' within 5 miles of an airport is a danger. I don't mind the RC airplanes if done below 400' AGL, but that is becoming the minority now. More and more are being operated in other manners.

Balsa wood airplanes with little gas engines is a niche hobby. The quadcopters are not. Their proliferation is the problem .

I was, admittedly, being a little over dramatic. But it was an attempt to make people realize that a hobby can be dangerous to people around you. I know you think that you are doing it safely, and you might be, but not everyone does. Is the enjoyment that you get from this worth the lives of others? There are many hobbies that I enjoy, but if they became a danger to others, I would stop.
 
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Put a restriction on all non-commercial UAVs limiting them to 400 AGL. Sell machines without that limit to people who have a UAV certificate, which requires training in airspace and FARs.

This allows farmers and real estate agents to continue to use them without stupid regulations getting in the way. And the people who want to truly play in the airspace get training before doing so.

How does that sound?
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
Put a restriction on all non-commercial UAVs limiting them to 400 AGL. Sell machines without that limit to people who have a UAV certificate, which requires training in airspace and FARs.

This allows farmers and real estate agents to continue to use them without stupid regulations getting in the way. And the people who want to truly play in the airspace get training before doing so.

How does that sound?
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It is certainly a start. But require that they operate them 1000' (or some distance) from people.
 
tbstanto said:
It is really popular. Videos of the property from above and flying around the house. I reluctantly admit that they are pretty cool.
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It's certainly not common around here.

I just went and checked, and the National Association of Realtors just put out guidance to members earlier this month telling them that they should not be using drones because of legal concerns.
 
tbstanto said:
You said "if something really bad happens". Just wondering what that will be. I spend ~120 hours a month sitting in airplanes. It is my life and the lives of thousands of other pilots, and millions of people that fly every day that these things are endangering. How many people have to be hurt and killed in your "something really bad happens" scenario for the public to wake up and realize that they pose a risk?

Answer this - how many lives is your little niche hobby worth?
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I think you are getting pretty dramatic.
I also think we all know how regulations are generated, and "if something really bad happens", equations change.
I too sit in airplanes. You make it sound like I don't.
120 hours/ month?
 
tbstanto said:
There will be at least 10,000 kids that get these things for Christmas. They will use them, and their parents will pay no attention to them, because they are "just toys". That will be a major issue for the US airspace. How many traditional RC's are flown on a given week in the US? It will go up 1000 fold in a very short time with the new/cheap ones that are coming out now.

@Itchy Do you think one UAV knocking an airplane down is the answer to solving this problem?
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I can see it now. The day after Christmas the news it's going to be filled with airplane crashes from them damn drones. This thread is like watching FOX News. Full of fear mongering and misinformation.

Edit to add: Let me be perfectly clear here. I'm not saying there isn't bad apples. There is. I've seen a few videos where I just shake my head. But the comments here from those who have ONLY ever seen those videos ate obvious.
 
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I think everybody realizes there needs to be SOME level of regulation, but draconian blanket rules do harm.

Tell me this. Why shouldn't a farmer in Kansas be able to use UAVs to survey his property without training? He isn't harming anyone. He isn't near an airport, and isn't flying near people. Why should the FAA make that illegal or difficult to do legally?
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
Tell me this. Why shouldn't a farmer in Kansas be able to use UAVs to survey his property without training? He isn't harming anyone. He isn't near an airport, and isn't flying near people. Why should the FAA make that illegal or difficult to do legally?
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I agree with you, but Ag pilots may disagree in this particular instance. Flying at treetop level while spraying is dangerous enough. You may know that your field is not being sprayed, but you do not know what your neighbor is doing.

There is no easy solution to this problem.
 
Regulations aren't going to fix stupid. Stupid will exist with or without them. If you fly your UAV into someone else's property, that's stupid.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
Regulations aren't going to fix stupid. Stupid will exist with or without them. If you fly your UAV into someone else's property, that's stupid.
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And we've got a bunch of brat kids with these things now that every idiot can have a quadcopter. That's the problem. This isn't yesterday's RC hobby. There needs to be serious regulation on this.
 
tbstanto said:
I agree with you, but Ag pilots may disagree in this particular instance. Flying at treetop level while spraying is dangerous enough. You may know that your field is not being sprayed, but you do not know what your neighbor is doing.

There is no easy solution to this problem.
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Refrence AC91-57. It lists guidelines for model aircraft.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
And we've got a bunch of brat kids with these things now that every idiot can have a quadcopter. That's the problem. This isn't yesterday's RC hobby. There needs to be serious regulation on this.
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I don't think regulation will do anything to fix the "problem." It will harm a bunch of businesses for no real gain in safety. Some regulation is necessary, yes. But draconian measures will just be ignored by the masses, and cost those who choose to obey lots of $$.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
And we've got a bunch of brat kids with these things now that every idiot can have a quadcopter. That's the problem. This isn't yesterday's RC hobby. There needs to be serious regulation on this.
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There doesn't need to be "serious" regulation in this. Not even close. YOU are the one always preaching about personal responsibility, are you not? And YOU are the one always preaching about keeping the government out of our lives, are you not?

FYI, I have two models that will do 120+ mph, and I fly them, FROM A PARK(gasp!). I bet your head just exploded. Yeah, I'm dangerous. CALL THE POLICE! I should be thrown in jail, like yesterday.
 
I get it, you know the word "draconian". Congratulations.

Would you object to the creation of a certificate/licensure process? Make operators take an FAA written test demonstrating knowledge about airspace and FAR's as they relate to them. That would be a pretty good start. And maybe an age restriction? Then, if they do commit a violation, there is no complaint that they did not know they were breaking the rules.

Would those steps be considered "draconian"?

You have to take a test to operate a ham radio, how would this be different?
 
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mshunter said:
There doesn't need to be "serious" regulation in this. Not even close. YOU are the one always preaching about personal responsibility, are you not? And YOU are the one always preaching about keeping the government out of our lives, are you not?
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No, I'm the one always preaching that the government is supposed to regulate safety, which is what this is about.
 
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