Multiple lateral moves

RonSwanson

RonSwanson

Well-Known Member
I wanted to get some insight as to how multiple lateral moves in the regional industry (with no terminations/forced resignations) reflects upon an applicant to a major airline. For the sake of anonymity I'd like to leave the details of my situation out and rather have more of a hypothetical discussion. Suffice it to say I've been furloughed, went to another carrier while on furlough, then went back to this carrier. I also transferred colleges.

The future where I am is quite bleak and rather obvious. I'm now considering starting over... For a 4th time... Which, compared to the alternative of reserve forever/on the street in a few years doesn't sound that bad. When I came back to my current company the future wasn't great but not as bleak as it is now. I could have gone elsewhere like compass or Skywest, but truly I figured that no regional was/is safe and I could have good QOL by going back. I was wrong. Nevertheless, I could pretty much explain all of these moves, I'm not just "getting bored". I have never been fired or asked to resign. The furlough was out of my control, but still this would be a lot of moving around in a relatively short period of time. The hiring and selection process at the legacies is thorough and scrupulous. Is a transient job history something that might hurt your chances, even if you could give a somewhat valid reason for each move? Does loyalty mean anything or do hiring boards really not care?

The reality of this industry is more volatile and unpredictable than ever, and I feel this discussion is more relevant today than ever before. This industry seems more like a shell game where you have to blindly "buy low" in order to be successful and acquire competitive qualifications, a lottery of sorts. This is largely out of a pilots control. I can see how not staying in one place for a while can look bad, but truly, when management is shuffling planes around like they're dealing black jack hands what do they expect you to do? Wait 7 years making 36k or until you get furloughed and your hand is forced? Do they really expect you to win this game of musical chairs in order to even give you a chance to interview? Do we work in an industry where those who were at the right place at the right time are rewarded, but if you make several tactful moves to try and make the best out of your career, you could be punished? Or, does sticking it out during the tough times look admirable? Briefly FOs we're getting hired at places like JetBlue and United with no TPIC, but it seems that trend has receded, and once again TPIC is a must.

People are bailing left and right for compass, Mesa, psa, maybe even tsa. If the past year and a half have shown us anything, it's that there is little unity and it's every man for himself, unfortunately.

I've been driving myself crazy with this for far too long, and I really need some help. Are there any consulting type companies that offer meaningful advice for situations or decisions like this? Thank you to all who respond.
 
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"Do you take this regional in sickness and in health, for richer, for poorer..."???

No answer is right, so know that, but there is something to say for someone who "goes down with the ship" if it gets that far. Mainline will have sick and poor days, too.

As for me, I'm shedding the lifejacket and rosin'in' up that bow to play some violin music for my fellow pilots. Key of B flat, gents.

Signed,
Captain of Small, Sick, Regional Airline
 
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One of the ACPs for a large Legacy said "if you have to, do it to move up. Don't do it to move to the same airplane, same seat." He went on to say that a progression "up" on a résumé looks really good, regardless of how many companies are there.
 
falconvalley said:
One of the ACPs for a large Legacy said "if you have to, do it to move up. Don't do it to move to the same airplane, same seat." He went on to say that a progression "up" on a résumé looks really good, regardless of how many companies are there.
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I agree, and the ACP gets it. Unfortunately, people outside aviation don't. In the past 10 years I went from engineer/career change to CFI, 135 charter, corporate, airline (regional). In an odd way, the regional was also a step up. So that's five jobs in ten years.

I had a part 91 corporate interview this summer, and the CEO of the company said he was concerned with all of the jobs I've had in the past 10 years (despite being at my current one for almost 4 years now). It really blew me away, as ANY aviation manager would look at my resume and completely understand why I left a 135 job flying a Navajo to fly a corporate citation, along with the rest of my career progression.
 
GypsyPilot said:
I agree, and the ACP gets it. Unfortunately, people outside aviation don't. In the past 10 years I went from engineer/career change to CFI, 135 charter, corporate, airline (regional). In an odd way, the regional was also a step up. So that's five jobs in ten years.

I had a part 91 corporate interview this summer, and the CEO of the company said he was concerned with all of the jobs I've had in the past 10 years (despite being at my current one for almost 4 years now). It really blew me away, as ANY aviation manager would look at my resume and completely understand why I left a 135 job flying a Navajo to fly a corporate citation, along with the rest of my career progression.
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Was that manager, by any chance, limited to one corner of aviation? Could be that they are biased because they only know their corner. I've noticed that "my path is the only legit path" is very common in aviation. It's actually somewhat comical. Before my dad retired, I would fly a 121 trip and perhaps listen to a very biased pilot talk about the things they would never do for a job and then I'd visit my dad at work when I was done and listen to his group talk about the exact opposite.
 
falconvalley said:
Was that manager, by any chance, limited to one corner of aviation? Could be that they are biased because they only know their corner. I've noticed that "my path is the only legit path" is very common in aviation. It's actually somewhat comical. Before my dad retired, I would fly a 121 trip and perhaps listen to a very biased pilot talk about the things they would never do for a job and then I'd visit my dad at work when I was done and listen to his group talk about the exact opposite.
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No, he was the CEO of a multi-billion dollar company. He very clearly didn't understand aviation. I asked the chief pilot about it afterwards, and that's exactly what he told me... "Yeah, sorry... Nobody here really understands what we do" were his exact words. From what I saw, he was absolutely correct.

I also had to explain to HR why flying 200 hours/yr in a part 91 flight dept doesn't mean we only work 200 hours per year. She just couldn't get it... Yes, you heard it right. The pilot candidate (me) was having to explain this stuff to a company I was interviewing at. It was strange, and obviously not a good fit for me.
 
GypsyPilot said:
No, he was the CEO of a multi-billion dollar company. He very clearly didn't understand aviation. I asked the chief pilot about it afterwards, and that's exactly what he told me... "Yeah, sorry... Nobody here really understands what we do" were his exact words. From what I saw, he was absolutely correct.

I also had to explain to HR why flying 200 hours/yr in a part 91 flight dept doesn't mean we only work 200 hours per year. She just couldn't get it... Yes, you heard it right. The pilot candidate (me) was having to explain this stuff to a company I was interviewing at. It was strange, and obviously not a good fit for me.
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Ahh lol, I've been very fortunate to have not had to deal with that. Sounds like they don't have to hire pilots often? Even my wife, who is very 121 savvy, doesn't completely understand all the work a 121 trip encompasses. She knows that duty time is a slightly better representation of how much we are at work. For a newbie, I usually explain to imagine 12+ hours a day at work, 4 days a week, away from home and maybe adding hours on each end to travel and you can tell they are in disbelief for a moment. Now I'm all like "I need a raise and stuff", again...
 
To piggy back, if your regional is stagnant in that industry sector, a shrinking sector, you gotta get out. That's not just career progression, that's staying out of the poor house.
 
I have a slightly different question along the same lines of the OP's. I'm sure we all agree that people inside of aviation understand that going from CFI to Survey to 121 regional (or insert your path here) in a 3 or 4 year time frame is almost expected. We can all explain that in an interview, IF we are fortunate enough to get one.

My question is this: at what point does the computer system no longer pick you for an interview?
 
Dude I'd say stay where you are and make as much money as you can. TPIC is not important even today. I have one close friend who applied to frontier with 2600TT that got a call almost immediately, and one with about the same time who got an AA class date. Neither have PIC time. The frontier call was last week. So just get 3000 TT, network and get move up instead of wasting months in a training cycle.
 
Do what is best for you and your family. People make lateral moves all the time. It is important to have TPIC for some airlines. Other airlines are looking for the well rounded pilot. Recruiters want to find the right people who fit their company culture. Just because you went to airline XYZ and did not have the opportunity to upgrade, the recruiter should not hold that against you.

I would interview everywhere and then worry about what to do after you get the job. I know for many pilots the industry is disappointing. Don't ever give up on your goals because you will be successful one day. I cannot stress how important it is to network, network and network. I did it to get my current job. I do it every day at Aero Crew Solutions.

If you ever have a questions please send me an email. There are no membership fees. I was in your shoes 8 years ago.
 
I'd listen to aerocrew, everyone.

If you need to stay, stay, but if you can get something better take the risk, hiring has picked up everywhere, nows not the time to sit still if you can help it.
 
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