Crowd Sourced Flight Training?

So what say you? Contribute or not?
Buy him a lawnmower or snow-blower.

I have no problem giving someone the tools to pursue their dream, but they need to show me they really want it. If someone has honestly sacrificed to pursue their dream, I'll help them get over the top and finish it.
 
There was one at the intersection of N. Scottsdale Road and Mayo, one at each entrance to both shopping centers on the north and south side of Mayo and one at the 101/Scottsdale Road offramp and one in he median.

Simultaneously.

All "Disabled Vets"

Sure. Uh huh.

There are a couple of people in Issaquah who clearly are not desperate. Clean clothing, no holes, good shoes, good back packs, could use a haircut though....one has to wonder.

I was in Federal way just yesterday and there was a very cute young lady (and I use that term loosely because she probably is), who had designer shoes and back pack, very nice jeans and had makeup on. Yet was on the side of I-5 begging for handouts......

I'm a disabled Vet, 90% no less, but you'll never find me by the side of the road asking for money. There is a special place in Hell for guys who fake being disabled Vets.
 
Has anyone here paid for their own flight training, without taking out loans or accepting money from parents, in the last 10 years? I just don't see how it's possible. I started working part time when I was in high school. 4 years of working after school and most weekends got me through private. How long would it take "bussing tables" to make ~70k to get a CFI cert? That's not including college tuition. I've seen several people try to pay their way through flight training one lesson at a time and fail. Working all week to afford a 1.5 hour lesson every weekend will not get you a CFI cert in a reasonable amount of time.

I'm not saying that crowd funding is a good idea, I'm not sure where I stand on that yet. We just need to be realistic about expectations for people to pay their own way into flying these days.

There is however another option he could take; emigrate to China, become a Chinese citizen, and then get a contract with an airline over there that pays for training ;)
 
Has anyone here paid for their own flight training, without taking out loans or accepting money from parents, in the last 10 years? I just don't see how it's possible. I started working part time when I was in high school. 4 years of working after school and most weekends got me through private. How long would it take "bussing tables" to make ~70k to get a CFI cert? That's not including college tuition. I've seen several people try to pay their way through flight training one lesson at a time and fail. Working all week to afford a 1.5 hour lesson every weekend will not get you a CFI cert in a reasonable amount of time.

I'm not saying that crowd funding is a good idea, I'm not sure where I stand on that yet. We just need to be realistic about expectations for people to pay their own way into flying these days.

There is however another option he could take; emigrate to China, become a Chinese citizen, and then get a contract with an airline over there that pays for training ;)

Yes. I am doing this out of pocket.
 
Has anyone here paid for their own flight training, without taking out loans or accepting money from parents, in the last 10 years? I just don't see how it's possible. I started working part time when I was in high school. 4 years of working after school and most weekends got me through private. How long would it take "bussing tables" to make ~70k to get a CFI cert? That's not including college tuition. I've seen several people try to pay their way through flight training one lesson at a time and fail. Working all week to afford a 1.5 hour lesson every weekend will not get you a CFI cert in a reasonable amount of time.

I'm not saying that crowd funding is a good idea, I'm not sure where I stand on that yet. We just need to be realistic about expectations for people to pay their own way into flying these days.

There is however another option he could take; emigrate to China, become a Chinese citizen, and then get a contract with an airline over there that pays for training ;)

Don't know where you're getting $70k for a CFI rating.

I borrowed a very small amount of money from family in the process of getting all my rating. I worked, I used 0% intro APR credit cards, I refinanced my car, blah blah. It took about 2.5 years from private to commercial, and I have no debt from it.
 
Has anyone here paid for their own flight training, without taking out loans or accepting money from parents, in the last 10 years? I just don't see how it's possible. I started working part time when I was in high school. 4 years of working after school and most weekends got me through private. How long would it take "bussing tables" to make ~70k to get a CFI cert? That's not including college tuition. I've seen several people try to pay their way through flight training one lesson at a time and fail. Working all week to afford a 1.5 hour lesson every weekend will not get you a CFI cert in a reasonable amount of time.

I'm not saying that crowd funding is a good idea, I'm not sure where I stand on that yet. We just need to be realistic about expectations for people to pay their own way into flying these days.

There is however another option he could take; emigrate to China, become a Chinese citizen, and then get a contract with an airline over there that pays for training ;)


I haven't seen anyone in this thread say help from parents or loans is inherently bad. What I think most of us have a problem with is asking strangers or random friends for handouts with no real plans of repayment.

If you get a loan you will pay it back. Your parents brought you into this world and changed your diapers...you're kind of expected to change theirs when the time comes. Totally different than begging for free cash.
 
Don't know where you're getting $70k for a CFI rating.

I borrowed a very small amount of money from family in the process of getting all my rating. I worked, I used 0% intro APR credit cards, I refinanced my car, blah blah. It took about 2.5 years from private to commercial, and I have no debt from it.

Yeah, not everyone is as smart as you. I did some training with a 141 school that will remain nameless. Couldn't believe some of the junk being forced down the throat of these kids. I think it was 60-80K for Commercial/IFR/multi. CFI/CFII cost extra. These kids were eating it up like it was the Gospel from God. Many of the 141 schools are total scams.
 
The kid is 15. If he wants to pursue an interest make him work for it by saving money he earns. It's called long term planning - something which younger people don't seem to have an education about. 401(k) - what's that? I had to save until I was 29 to start training.
 
Yeah, not everyone is as smart as you. I did some training with a 141 school that will remain nameless. Couldn't believe some of the junk being forced down the throat of these kids. I think it was 60-80K for Commercial/IFR/multi. CFI/CFII cost extra. These kids were eating it up like it was the Gospel from God. Many of the 141 schools are total scams.

It's no secret 141 is expensive...
 
This is more or less the way I was raised and probably how I would raise my own kids.

But it's a different world than 20-30 years ago, and crowd-sourcing stuff like this is not only more common, but more socially acceptable.Two or three generations ago it would have probably been generally considered shameful, but that stigma is reduced these days. Agree or not, but it definitely is indicative of changing times.

It's acceptable because it's new. Just like when eBay was new and idiots would pay $10,000 for a ham sandwich that looks like Jesus. In another five years, I'm willing to bet the era of modern mooching will be all but over.
 
Has anyone here paid for their own flight training, without taking out loans or accepting money from parents, in the last 10 years? I just don't see how it's possible. I started working part time when I was in high school. 4 years of working after school and most weekends got me through private. How long would it take "bussing tables" to make ~70k to get a CFI cert? That's not including college tuition. I've seen several people try to pay their way through flight training one lesson at a time and fail. Working all week to afford a 1.5 hour lesson every weekend will not get you a CFI cert in a reasonable amount of time.

I'm not saying that crowd funding is a good idea, I'm not sure where I stand on that yet. We just need to be realistic about expectations for people to pay their own way into flying these days.

There is however another option he could take; emigrate to China, become a Chinese citizen, and then get a contract with an airline over there that pays for training ;)

Yes. Me. I started flight training in April 2004. Paid every dime myself. I had also graduated college three years prior to that, and paid for all of that myself as well.

I know flight training is expensive (and a lot more than when I started), but there are still ways to do it yourself if your family is unable.

The thing that really blows me away is how many people just won't try to even save money... When I was a CFI, I taught my students with an eye towards frugality since that's what I HAD to do. Yet I constantly had students come in unprepared, wanting to fly the expensive G1000s, while complaining about costs.
 
Yes. Me. I started flight training in April 2004. Paid every dime myself. I had also graduated college three years prior to that, and paid for all of that myself as well.

I know flight training is expensive (and a lot more than when I started), but there are still ways to do it yourself if your family is unable.

The thing that really blows me away is how many people just won't try to even save money... When I was a CFI, I taught my students with an eye towards frugality since that's what I HAD to do. Yet I constantly had students come in unprepared, wanting to fly the expensive G1000s, while complaining about costs.

Well you were a college graduate with (I assume) a better paying job than fast food, or washing planes at an FBO. We're talking about a 15 year old here.
 
Well you were a college graduate with (I assume) a better paying job than fast food, or washing planes at an FBO. We're talking about a 15 year old here.
I don't want to call him out or embarrass him, but for a fine example of a young man who joined this site when he was 16 years old, (he began taking flight lessons at the age of 15 - which he paid for) look back on his posts and you will see how/what he did, how far he has come and what he has accomplished with no help from anyone, including his parents, in just 4 short years. He is a true example of someone a person can admire and respect. He did it all with focus, dedication, making the necessary sacrifices, hard work and no whining either.
Ayork62493
 
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Well you were a college graduate with (I assume) a better paying job than fast food, or washing planes at an FBO. We're talking about a 15 year old here.

I was 15 once too. My uncle (an airline pilot) took my brother and I up flying several times in his Cherokee when we were kids, and sometimes when he flew into Stapleton my Mom would drive us down there and we got to tour his 727. So I've wanted to fly since I can remember. But my parents couldn't afford it, and I certainly couldn't particularly since the closest airport to us (BJC) was an hour away.

When I was older, I still really wanted to fly and sporadically took lessons and rode along with anybody I could since I was 18. But college was more important and took all my extra cash. How is that anybody else's problem? We don't always get to do what we want immediately.

I have learned that I can pretty much make anything happen eventually, as long as I keep working on it. Quite a valuable life skill as it turns out!

If that kid was really on the ball, and lives near somewhere with gliders, he could easily make enough money working at a restaurant to get that rating...
 
The recent direction this thread has gone made me think of something that bothers me.

Recently in my city a lot of the peewee football teams have been fundraising. Now in my day we did all the cliche fundraising things. Car washes, we sold stuff, had raffles, etc. Well these kids and their parents have been just standing around street corner literally panhandling. They have their kids out on the street with signs just asking for money. No services. No car wash. Dub T Eff? When did this become cool? When did it become cool to teach your kids that it's ok to just ask for money and not try and work for it. What a horrible lesson these parents are teaching.
 
The recent direction this thread has gone made me think of something that bothers me.

Recently in my city a lot of the peewee football teams have been fundraising. Now in my day we did all the cliche fundraising things. Car washes, we sold stuff, had raffles, etc. Well these kids and their parents have been just standing around street corner literally panhandling. They have their kids out on the street with signs just asking for money. No services. No car wash. Dub T Eff? When did this become cool? When did it become cool to teach your kids that it's ok to just ask for money and not try and work for it. What a horrible lesson these parents are teaching.

Their parents are just setting them up for failure in the real world. Sad. The result of the first "participation trophy" generation starting to breed.
 
The recent direction this thread has gone made me think of something that bothers me.

Recently in my city a lot of the peewee football teams have been fundraising. Now in my day we did all the cliche fundraising things. Car washes, we sold stuff, had raffles, etc. Well these kids and their parents have been just standing around street corner literally panhandling. They have their kids out on the street with signs just asking for money. No services. No car wash. Dub T Eff? When did this become cool? When did it become cool to teach your kids that it's ok to just ask for money and not try and work for it. What a horrible lesson these parents are teaching.
And this is what I can't understand. You only have so many years to instill so many lessons in a child. You have to start long before they start school. You have to lay the foundations of courage, hard work, the value of money, morals, ethics, a conscience, the difference between right and wrong and why, to be accountable and responsible for one's actions, caring for people and animals and why, setting and meeting goals, the feeling of earning something and accomplishment, the things that are worthwhile in life and those that aren't, determination and focus, values, helping others, how to face and overcome challenges and so much more. And you have to be the example. By the time they are teenagers, if you haven't already done all of this, it's just mostly too late.

Besides our regular daily and weekly chores that we had since I can remember, we as kids, all had part time jobs starting in junior high, delivering newspapers, doing errands, washing cars, mowing lawns, sweeping up and emptying trash at stores, selling things door to door, making/creating things and selling them, working at FBOs, just all kinds of odd jobs- some that we created and some that were more established. He gave us the discipline of saving, not pissing away money on frivolous things, giving a certain amount to a worthwhile charity or cause, and then the smallest percent went to our "mad money" that we could blow on fun things. I raised my children the same and they did the same with their kids which I have also helped to instill in my grand kids and my sister in law's kids.

My Father could have easily afforded to give us the latest whatever or the best whatever. But he didn't and for a reason. He gave us instead, a safe stable, loving family, a decent home to live in, taught us what we needed to do in life to succeed and survive, supported us emotionally, inspired us, demanded/expected that we do well in school, taught us a million life lessons, to earn and work for what we wanted, to enjoy life and it's journey, to be confident, to appreciate - truly appreciate what we did have, how to be well adjusted men and women and how to be decent human beings. It brought us closer as a family and all those ties, experiences and commonalities still bind us all together to this day. This is something that has no price and cannot be purchased or given to you by strangers. I carried all of that into my own life and when I became a Dad and now a Grand Dad. Thus far, it still works.

Life is difficult. It is full of roadblocks, disasters and dead ends. But, it is also full of joy, beauty, surprises and wonderful things. You need to be prepared for all that road has to offer, the journey along the way and the ability to cope/ adapt/deal with all of it.

I said it before in this thread and I'll repeat it, nothing of value is free and nothing of value that is not earned, is respected, admirable or appreciated.
 
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