You must be a CFI they said...

Boris Badenov said:
aviation appliance operation
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I know you used this phrase to sound sarcastically artful, but IMHO time spent as an instructor isn't nearly as valuable at improving the "appliance operation skills" as it is at helping develop the more esoteric airmanship/judgment/"head-work" skills.
 
Adler said:
I'd rather build time as a CFI than bomb around in some shady single pilot metro all night. But that metro pilot probably has much better instrument skills than the CFI teaching private pilots in Texas.
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Kind of a false dichotomy argument, since it isn't a binary choice between the two, and both avenues build important but somewhat different experience types, thus developing different aspects of airmanship and judgment.
 
Hacker15e said:
Kind of a false dichotomy argument, since it isn't a binary choice between the two, and both avenues build important but somewhat different experience types, thus developing different aspects of airmanship and judgment.
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That's my point. Whatever avenue you choose, each has it's merits. It's not as simple as "get your CFI because it makes you a better pilot".
 
I didn't CFI and back about the 3000 hour mark I was like, ya I think that might be cool to do now that I have a basic idea of what I'm doing. I'm probably going to do it next summer. After the SES.
 
There's a couple responses in here riddled with hyperbole.

There are good pilots and bad pilots. There are good instructors and bad instructors. There are good sweeping generalizations and bad ones.

Speaking of generalizations, always keep in mind that most people will tell you to do what they did. There are also seemingly valid arguments for every position whether they truly are or not. Anecdotal evidence is not an easily defensible one.
 
jtrain609 said:
It's not arrogance, it's science.

I never washed one flight instructor out at Amflight.

Mappers, meat missile tossers, banner towers, you name it; they all had problems with basic attitude instrument flying. Did some of them make it through? Sure. But they didn't have the ability to self critique like flight instructors did, and they didn't have the hand flying skills that flight instructors did, and they didn't have the rock solid instrument skills that flight instructors did.

I don't know about you, but I want to be the best at whatever I do, and I don't like cutting corners.

So like I said, if you're ok with being mediocre, then don't instruct. If you want to be the best, then get out there and teach it. This is not a value judgement about what paths others choose, simply an elucidation of how to be great at something. If somebody doesn't want that for themselves, and many don't, then that's fine.

And that doesn't matter what it is in life, if you can teach it, you're at the top of your game. I mean why do you think they make the best of the best at any company sim instructors?
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I agree with most of your message but your delivery leaves much to be desired. And since you've been so blunt I have to ask, not what you've done, but what in your life experience have you been "Great" at and achieved a status that places you above the normal or average?

I'm sure that we all have different personal definitions for "Great", but when it comes to pilots, I know a lot who are "really good", but not personally any Bob Hoovers who are "Great". My point being someone who is "Great" is head and shoulders above the average and has been recognized for this.
 
Adler said:
But that metro pilot probably has much better instrument skills than the CFI teaching private pilots in Texas.
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Eh...probably true. But I think the people skills you need/gain by instructing are, at the very least, just as important as solid instrument skills. At least that is if the goal is to one day work in a crew environment.

I'd venture to say that in a crew environment more accidents are prevented by a superior ability to read a situation and effectively communicate the shortcoming than by superior stick and rudder skills. Look at the Colgan crash for example. The ability for the pilot monitoring to assess the decaying airspeed before it becomes a problem and communicate that to the PF would have been a much more effective skill than the ability to recover from a stall. Unfortunately they sucked at both...but I think it still demonstrates my point.

I'm not saying the meat and potatoes skills aren't important and can be ignored. I just think in the day to day, one will go further with a average piloting skills than average people skills.
 
Do I wish I had my CFI? Sure. The bottom line is I've managed to fly a jet around for the last four years with some one else who doesn't have a CFI. We haven't managed to kill any one or break our "aviation appliance " (that was for @Boris Badenov :) ). We both also flew for two different regionals. I have flown with several "cfi's" in their first real world flight in a jet (as in, sat right seat at FSI in the sim and thought they knew it all). Some of the worst flying I've seen. But some of the most rewarding flights I've made was talking them through their first visual approach in a jet. Each time it made me wish I had my CFI. I'm just average though and hopefully will never consider myself great.
 
This discussion is really suffering from black and white thinking and over-generalizations.

There are many variables that go into making a good pilot.

Most instructors (myself included) feel that giving instruction pays great dividends to one's one skill, judgment, and maturity as a pilot. It is a unique experience that we have found to be very valuable for all the reasons mentioned in this thread.

This is not to negate or put down the many other variables or types of experience that can be valuable in the development of a good pilot.

And I can't think of a valid, scientific way of actually weighing one against the other to proclaim which is most important.

I'd leave it at that.
 
Nobody needs a CFI license, will it make climbing up the ladder easier? Yes, it also depends on what you want to do and how fast you want to get there. A lot of people don't want to do it because they feel like they can't teach others. There will be days that you swear so much in your mind that you know you've just gotten yourself a first class ticket to hell, but thankfully i'm pretty patient which helps the student have a lot better experience, and your not pissed after every flight. I convinced my friend to do her checkride two weeks ago because she wasn't going to, even though she did all the training to get her CFI and CFII. The pay can also be crappy depending on where you go, you just gotta do your research and if the deal is good enough then move. I lucked out, and i'm making about 10K more than I will when or if I go to a regional, and getting a discounted bachelors, but if the pay isn't good you can also bang it out at a second job. I still kept my second job throwing bags for Daddy D (Delta). Having your CFI gets you flying faster, but its definitely not for everyone.
 
I became a CFI because it was a personal challenge and because I thought I could make a difference having witnessed an accident and discussed countless ones on here. I know I'm not the best pilot yet, but I aim to set an example for others to follow.

It's a steep learning curve but before they take that chance away from us low timers in this over cautious world, it's definitely a solid option.
 
TL;DR. I have a CFI/II and a little over 100 hours of instructor time. I don't know how much having the ratings influenced my ability to get hired elsewhere. But I'm going against the grain and saying, in my personal experience, I learned SOOOO much more by flying with professional aviators (corporate) and dodging thunderstorms and mountains doing cross-countries around the country (aerial photography) than I ever did by CFIing.

Is it necessary? No. Will it help? Probably. Is it worth the money and time? IMHO, I think you will learn more by getting your CFI than any other certificate, so I'd say yes. Whether you actually use it later, well, that's up to you.
 
Xcaliber said:
TL;DR. I have a CFI/II and a little over 100 hours of instructor time. I don't know how much having the ratings influenced my ability to get hired elsewhere. But I'm going against the grain and saying, in my personal experience, I learned SOOOO much more by flying with professional aviators (corporate) and dodging thunderstorms and mountains doing cross-countries around the country (aerial photography) than I ever did by CFIing.

Is it necessary? No. Will it help? Probably. Is it worth the money and time? IMHO, I think you will learn more by getting your CFI than any other certificate, so I'd say yes. Whether you actually use it later, well, that's up to you.
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@UAL747400 usually has rum laden rants on this topic. popcorn-
 
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TXRaiderPilot22 said:
Hello Folks,

I'm looking for a little advice here, some words of wisdom for Single/Multi Commercial pilot with 300tt with 52 hrs multi. I have recently completed my commercial licenses and was told by a handful of people that "You better not look for a job and just go to CFI school because that is the only way you are going to make it in this world. You HAVE to be a CFI to be a pilot". I want to know if this is really the case or just something someone told them. I've meet some pilots along the way that got it and have never signed off a single student or even had a student. Do you really HAVE to get your CFI or can you do it without one?

Thank y'all in advance for any advice you can lend a new guy,
TXRaiderPilot22
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What city are you in?
 
z987k said:
@UAL747400 usually has rum laden rants on this topic. popcorn-
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Non-rum laden.

You're gonna do EXACTLY the same "dealing with people" things doing survey work. I would argue more actually. It's just in a different context.

OT, You don't HAVE to get your CFI, but this is a world of checking off boxes now. It probably always has been. The Internet paints it more clearly at the very least. Most in charge of hiring are ignorant to what survey flying entails and will probably thumb their nose at it. It is what it is.

IMO, a pictometry style survey job is the best way for a low timer to get time and experience. Yes I've instructed at a puppy mill and free-lance. Aerial survey is better in my opinion.
 
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unclassified said:
I got hired at a major at age 25 because I didn't CFI and didn't go to college.
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Yes, very few do this, not because it is difficult, but because the opportunities are few. There are many CFIs because many are needed, and this demand produces many ATPs. One route isn't easier than another, it is related to the needs of the market as a whole.

Also, When were you 25? It may be more luck than talent given the economics of the time.
 
ahw01 said:
Yes, very few do this, not because it is difficult, but because the opportunities are few. There are many CFIs because many are needed, and this demand produces many ATPs. One route isn't easier than another, it is related to the needs of the market as a whole.

Also, When were you 25? It may be more luck than talent given the economics of the time.
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No luck. Definitely talent.They said in the interview that they loved my experience and background, as it matched exactly with with what they did. Kicked butt in GS and in training and they had the rep of being the toughest 121 training in the US. So lack of college wasn't an issue.
 
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