Time off and being on call

Inverted said:
He flies Air Ambo, I can only imagine that "schedule"
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I'm obviously not familiar with all the EMS operators out there, but I don't know of a single one that doesn't operate or very close to 12 hours on call per day, which is assigned at least a month in advance.
 
It seems what should be clarified is the difference between rest and sleep. I don't know about you guys, but I don't operate too well without at least 6 hours of sleep. The scenario that always befuddles me is one in which you complete a flight, duty off, and "rest" for 10 hours. In this example let's say you duty off at 21:00. You are eligible to duty back on at 06:00, but you don't get a call until 21:00, and boom, it's for a 14 hour duty, 9 hr flight day. That means your duty should end at 11:00 the next day which means you might not have slept for as much as 29 hrs. In my opinion, this is unacceptable. We as pilots need to be turning these kind of scenarios down, or raising questions and modifying the mission in some way so that it can be done safely, i.e. trying to work with management/scheduling to accomplish the task at hand. Instead, what I hear from other pilots is to "cowboy up" or "pull your man card out." I find this very frustrating.
 
averettpilot said:
It seems what should be clarified is the difference between rest and sleep. I don't know about you guys, but I don't operate too well without at least 6 hours of sleep. The scenario that always befuddles me is one in which you complete a flight, duty off, and "rest" for 10 hours. In this example let's say you duty off at 21:00. You are eligible to duty back on at 06:00, but you don't get a call until 21:00, and boom, it's for a 14 hour duty, 9 hr flight day. That means your duty should end at 11:00 the next day which means you might not have slept for as much as 29 hrs. In my opinion, this is unacceptable. We as pilots need to be turning these kind of scenarios down, or raising questions and modifying the mission in some way so that it can be done safely, i.e. trying to work with management/scheduling to accomplish the task at hand. Instead, what I hear from other pilots is to "cowboy up" or "pull your man card out." I find this very frustrating.
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You are eligible to be back on duty at 0600, but are you? When does your next duty period actually start? If it's 2000, then you should probably get some rest prior to the 2000 start. If it's 0600, then you can only do 0600+14= 2000 duty off and you're not accepting anything at 2100.
 
Actually, you're eligible at 07:00. Did my math wrong. Anyway, that's what I'm saying. My company considers it rest from the moment after you've gotten your 10 hrs required rest to the moment I get called, as in the example I provided.

After my 10 hrs required, I don't know when my next duty period is because it's on demand. It's frustrating that they will schedule it like that and I'm going to have to say no. I don't think that will go over very well.
 
averettpilot said:
Actually, you're eligible at 07:00. Did my math wrong. Anyway, that's what I'm saying. My company considers it rest from the moment after you've gotten your 10 hrs required rest to the moment I get called, as in the example I provided.

After my 10 hrs required, I don't know when my next duty period is because it's on demand. It's frustrating that they will schedule it like that and I'm going to have to say no. I don't think that will go over very well.
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Stand your ground. The rule/opinion from the FAA is clear.

On demand does not mean the pilot's schedule is "on demand".
 
Yeah, it will be hard but also easy cause I'm thinking this might be my last go round in aviation. I'm tired of being told I'm in an entry level position and that's why the pay and schedule sucks. "You have to break in somehow, right."
 
averettpilot said:
Yeah, it will be hard but also easy cause I'm thinking this might be my last go round in aviation. I'm tired of being told I'm in an entry level position and that's why the pay and schedule sucks. "You have to break in somehow, right."
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Don't give up too quick. Yes pay and schedule will suck at the "bottom" but suck does not equate to against the FARs. Planes fly 24/7 just a fact of the industry but you can be given a schedule that at least allows you to plan your rest appropriately.
 
Yeah, I hear you. Just thought 3000 hrs and an ATP would be treated a little differently is all. Still looking for a good company I guess. I hear they're out there...
 
Crockrocket94 said:
They actually do onsite interviews and audits.
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Oh I know, i just question the validity of the info they are getting from pilots if it's not handled confidentially. AR/GUS is more than happy to take a big check to give some operators a platinum rating. Perhaps they have changed their ways after the SK Logistics helo crash in 2011.

That's not to say some operators aren't deserving of the platinum rating, but history has shown that money talks at AR/GUS.
 
Ok, was told they can use that sliding 10 hrs of rest because the GOM says that we must refuse a flight if we are fatigued (of course if this happens too much job won't last long). Sliding 10 hrs meaning it slides forward 1 hour all the way up to an assignment. I'm not sure the legality or legitimacy of that, but there it is. They said they could manage my rest but I would be the night pilot and have to sit at the airport for those 14 hrs. So pretty much sucks. Anybody heard of that "interpretation", and also if FAA legal interpretations actually have any standing?
 
averettpilot said:
Ok, was told they can use that sliding 10 hrs of rest because the GOM says that we must refuse a flight if we are fatigued (of course if this happens too much job won't last long). Sliding 10 hrs meaning it slides forward 1 hour all the way up to an assignment. I'm not sure the legality or legitimacy of that, but there it is. They said they could manage my rest but I would be the night pilot and have to sit at the airport for those 14 hrs. So pretty much sucks. Anybody heard of that "interpretation", and also if FAA legal interpretations actually have any standing?
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They would have to call you every hour and extend your rest.
 
AviatorGator said:
Oh I know, i just question the validity of the info they are getting from pilots if it's not handled confidentially. AR/GUS is more than happy to take a big check to give some operators a platinum rating. Perhaps they have changed their ways after the SK Logistics helo crash in 2011.

That's not to say some operators aren't deserving of the platinum rating, but history has shown that money talks at AR/GUS.
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Did you work at SK? Not many know the ways and things that happened there. I'm glad I got out when I did. Flying for Hoke was...interesting.
 
Stone Cold said:
Did you work at SK? Not many know the ways and things that happened there. I'm glad I got out when I did. Flying for Hoke was...interesting.
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No I did not, I worked (and still work for) their competitor. We picked up the aforementioned contract after the accident.

It seems like Hoke was successful for a while but pushed it too far in the late 2000's until the final accident.
 
AviatorGator said:
No I did not, I worked (and still work for) their competitor. We picked up the aforementioned contract after the accident.

It seems like Hoke was successful for a while but pushed it too far in the late 2000's until the final accident.
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Ah, ok. Best thing that ever happened to aviation in NE Florida was the end of that company. Too bad Hoke had to take down people with him to do it. Of course, over at Craig, apparently, it's all pay-to-play now, so go figure...ahh, Florida.

Sorry about the thread drift...
 
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