Endeavor Hiring

jynxyjoe said:
Endeavor doesn't make any sense, you gotta get out, and get on.
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I desperately want out but I just refuse to see myself starting over at a regional. If I can't get out to something better than a regional then I guess I'll just stay here and see how big the carrot might get before they just close the doors. After that. Who knows.
 
bronco21016 said:
I desperately want out but I just refuse to see myself starting over at a regional. If I can't get out to something better than a regional then I guess I'll just stay here and see how big the carrot might get before they just close the doors. After that. Who knows.
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Understood.
 
So many of us are playing career chicken.

The real downside though is if you haven't prepared yourself to make a stable income in the invent you lose this gambling game.
 
bronco21016 said:
I desperately want out but I just refuse to see myself starting over at a regional. If I can't get out to something better than a regional then I guess I'll just stay here and see how big the carrot might get before they just close the doors. After that. Who knows.
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I used to think the same thing, but...

I realized that this attitude means that we're unwilling to accept success in the future due to short term pain.

Do what you will with that.
 
bronco21016 said:
I desperately want out but I just refuse to see myself starting over at a regional. If I can't get out to something better than a regional then I guess I'll just stay here and see how big the carrot might get before they just close the doors. After that. Who knows.
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Why wait for the inevitable? Take the plunge, and the sooner the better. I heard of 9E guys that went to GoJets and Compass in early 2012 and at GoJets already upgraded and I believe pretty close at Compass (if not already). Starting over sucks, but is staying stagnant worth it?
 
I'm gonna get a lot of grief for this but I'm part of the camp that believes staying at Endeavor could have a huge upside. Yes, there is a risk of being shutdown but I feel like once we're at the 81 -900s, which is just as good as any other commitment for aircraft in the FFD industry right now, we'll start seeing movement.

I firmly believe Delta wants Endeavor to work but only with 900s. No 50 seaters. Once we get to crisis mode for staffing the 900s Delta will have no option but to make things more attractive for new hires if they want to keep the doors open. The EtD signals to me that Delta may be aligning to staff their regionals by making them the only civilian path to Delta. Delta is my top choice despite what some at Endeavor think of Delta.

If you look at the timeline for that to play out one could estimate about 1 year. How many people are going to be hired at Legacys and the Majors/LCCs in 2015? 4,000? 5,000? Why start over at a regional for first year pay when I can ride out a year at my just recently capped pay and hopefully get on with an airline other than a regional? Or maybe even a cushy corporate gig.

I don't fear losing my job yet so I figure ride it out for another year or so and see how drastically the landscape has changed rather than take a paycut chasing an upgrade and end up stagnating again.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Why wait for the inevitable? Take the plunge, and the sooner the better. I heard of 9E guys that went to GoJets and Compass in early 2012 and at GoJets already upgraded and I believe pretty close at Compass (if not already). Starting over sucks, but is staying stagnant worth it?
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Unless you want to start sending people $10k that want to jump to a new regional I don't think this idea will work well. Not everyone can or is willing to make $21-25k work. Making the jump isn't easy.

If I went to Compass/GoJet my expenses would be well over $2k before even starting IOE. Factor in the loss of over 10k from the pay cut and we are talking about a lot of money.

Being a captain is fun and all but my health is taking a big hit because of this terrible pay. Chasing the upgrade just isn't worth it for some people.

I can understand 100% why some people just don't care to go elsewhere unless it is a legit upgrade from their current job.
 
Maurus said:
Unless you want to start sending people $10k that want to jump to a new regional I don't think this idea will work well. Not everyone can or is willing to make $21-25k work. Making the jump isn't easy.

If I went to Compass/GoJet my expenses would be well over $2k before even starting IOE. Factor in the loss of over 10k from the pay cut and we are talking about a lot of money.

Being a captain is fun and all but my health is taking a big hit because of this terrible pay. Chasing the upgrade just isn't worth it for some people.

I can understand 100% why some people just don't care to go elsewhere unless it is a legit upgrade from their current job.
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So you are a CA? I was referring to Endeavor FOs who arguably will never see a left seat.

When the pilots signed the agreement, many got a 6k payout. That would be enough of a cushion to get through Compass IOE.
 
bronco21016 said:
I'm gonna get a lot of grief for this but I'm part of the camp that believes staying at Endeavor could have a huge upside. Yes, there is a risk of being shutdown but I feel like once we're at the 81 -900s, which is just as good as any other commitment for aircraft in the FFD industry right now, we'll start seeing movement.

I firmly believe Delta wants Endeavor to work but only with 900s. No 50 seaters. Once we get to crisis mode for staffing the 900s Delta will have no option but to make things more attractive for new hires if they want to keep the doors open. The EtD signals to me that Delta may be aligning to staff their regionals by making them the only civilian path to Delta. Delta is my top choice despite what some at Endeavor think of Delta.

If you look at the timeline for that to play out one could estimate about 1 year. How many people are going to be hired at Legacys and the Majors/LCCs in 2015? 4,000? 5,000? Why start over at a regional for first year pay when I can ride out a year at my just recently capped pay and hopefully get on with an airline other than a regional? Or maybe even a cushy corporate gig.

I don't fear losing my job yet so I figure ride it out for another year or so and see how drastically the landscape has changed rather than take a paycut chasing an upgrade and end up stagnating again.
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History goes against you. Delta's wholly-owned regionals have historically always been chopped. People that have your line of belief simply forget that you are here in this predicament because the threat was "vote yes, or you will be shut down." No company that threatens a shutdown will then turn you into the next best thing since sliced bread. I didn't say chase an upgrade. For that, I'd apply to Great Lakes for their Beech 1900D Captain position. That pay sucks, but is still better than first year RJ FO pay and you'd get TPIC time. And don't let anyone give you grief over Great Lakes. Your resume, and your career track, have nothing to do with what others think.

You said recently capped pay, so it sounds like you have just completed 3 years and are now on 4th year pay. Keep in mind there are FOs hired in 2007 who should be on 8th year pay that are capped at half their longevity. Endeavor is losing far too many per month and hiring only a fraction to replace them. Maybe it's all on purpose, because after all the end goal is 81 planes. IMO, the regional model is broke, and as mentioned the 50 seaters are done for. Considering the new ATP regulations, I think the regional industry will drastically change going into the future. Just as the legacies consolidated to only 3 today, I think some regionals will just disappear and only 2-3 super regionals will make it out alive. I don't see Endeavor as the one surviving.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
So you are a CA? I was referring to Endeavor FOs who arguably will never see a left seat.
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Not anymore.

I'm saying that not everyone has the ability or will to make the jump to first year pay at a regional again. Losing over 33% of your pay just isn't worth the hit you can take to your health.

I gained weight like crazy on first year pay. Add in the quality of food I was eating and the added stress and you have yourself a very unhealthy lifestyle. Sorry. It isn't worth the increased chance of obtaining a 4th stripe. I don't want a heart attack by the time I hit 35.
 
Maurus said:
Not anymore.

I'm saying that not everyone has the ability or will to make the jump to first year pay at a regional again. Losing over 33% of your pay just isn't worth the hit you can take to your health.

I gained weight like crazy on first year pay. Add in the quality of food I was eating and the added stress and you have yourself a very unhealthy lifestyle. Sorry. It isn't worth the increased chance of obtaining a 4th stripe. I don't want a heart attack by the time I hit 35.
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Sorry to hear that you lost your seat :( Hopefully LOA 50 does cover/apply to you?

How did you gain weight on first year pay?! First year pay I ate scraps ;)
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Sorry to hear that you lost your seat :( Hopefully LOA 50 does cover/apply to you?

How did you gain weight on first year pay?! First year pay I ate scraps ;)
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I am not at endeavor but I can understand why many pilots may not want to leave.

I left for XJT instead of taking a EMB-120 CA seat at a cargo carrier. I was a Metro CA prior. I will hopefully learn tomorrow if United likes cargo time at all.

I gained weight because I saved up money to take the big pay cut to go to a regional. I still had to watch my money though. Menus when eating out typically had deep fried goodness as their cheaper options. Also the "menu" at home (sister's place) wasn't the most healthy either for various reasons but mostly due to a lack of money.
 
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History does go against my logic which is why I view it as a gamble.

I also view it as a calculated gamble though because I feel there is a very good chance I'll have the opportunity to move on to something better than a regional before Endeavor closes the doors, if that is what will happen here. I figure we have at least 2 more years before they throw in the towel. I could be wrong though.

Speaking of regionals shutting their doors why should I go to another regional when only 2-3 will survive as you said? I could leave Endeavor chasing greener grass and a future just to find I'm now at another regional that will not survive the new realities of the FFD world. Then I start over once again.

We all know massive changes are coming to the industry so I plan on riding it out. I know many people who have tried hopping around and it has paid off for only a handful.
 
bronco21016 said:
History does go against my logic which is why I view it as a gamble.

I also view it as a calculated gamble though because I feel there is a very good chance I'll have the opportunity to move on to something better than a regional before Endeavor closes the doors, if that is what will happen here. I figure we have at least 2 more years before they throw in the towel. I could be wrong though.

Speaking of regionals shutting their doors why should I go to another regional when only 2-3 will survive as you said? I could leave Endeavor chasing greener grass and a future just to find I'm now at another regional that will not survive the new realities of the FFD world. Then I start over once again.

We all know massive changes are coming to the industry so I plan on riding it out. I know many people who have tried hopping around and it has paid off for only a handful.
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Well, because the ones getting growth today are strong candidates. Somehow, I think Compass will manage to do just fine. And as much as people hate to say it, so should Mesa. I think XJT is in trouble for its sole 50-seat fleet but Skywest Inc as a whole is a strong candidate that will be around for a while.
 
bronco21016 said:
History does go against my logic which is why I view it as a gamble.

I also view it as a calculated gamble though because I feel there is a very good chance I'll have the opportunity to move on to something better than a regional before Endeavor closes the doors, if that is what will happen here. I figure we have at least 2 more years before they throw in the towel. I could be wrong though.

Speaking of regionals shutting their doors why should I go to another regional when only 2-3 will survive as you said? I could leave Endeavor chasing greener grass and a future just to find I'm now at another regional that will not survive the new realities of the FFD world. Then I start over once again.

We all know massive changes are coming to the industry so I plan on riding it out. I know many people who have tried hopping around and it has paid off for only a handful.
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On the bright side, if you participate in the 401K, you're fees are about to go down.

Hiring is exacerbated, the secret is out, if Delta is going to do something this winter will be big moment. Time to get creative Delta, or... just... you know... do what you promised.
 
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