Malaysian 777 Plane Crashes in Ukraine

ATN_Pilot said:
None of our damned business!
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At the risk of sounding neo-con'ish, the world will continue to be interconnected more, not less. There's a big divide between economic sanctions and a shooting war though. We can operate in that arena with a collective of like minded countries.

The Israeli-Palestinian thing is a matter im leaving alone, just talking about the Ukrainian thing. Maybe we should start up another thread on it?
 
It doesn't matter whether it's Israel, Ukraine, Iraq, or Australia. It's none of our damned business. The world is certainly interconnected, and that's a great argument for things like free trade agreements, but it's an atrocious argument for interfering in the business of other countries, whether it's military action or sanctions. Sanctions harm regular people, who then resent the people who imposed those sanctions. Twenty years later, one of our airplanes blows up and the reason cited is "you imposed sanctions on my country decades ago and we suffered, so now you suffer." Leave them alone! It's none of our business.
 
Seeing as we're off topic anyway, I'll just make one observation then shut up:

Before the Iraq invasion of 2003 we were specifically warned by regional experts here, our allies, and officials in the George Bush, Sr., administration that if we toppled Saddam Hussein we would destabilize the Persian Gulf, witness the dissolution of Iraq into separate feuding tribal states, and make Iran the undisputed regional superpower by taking away their only real check and balance.

We did it anyway, and we're witnessing today just how stupid the decision to invade was. I've no desire to repeat that mistake in other areas of the world, especially with our track record of screwing up the aftermath when we do intervene and then washing our hands of the mess we create after we've spent trillions in money we don't have and needlessly sacrificing military personnel for no real gain in national security.

And there is simply no better endorsement of that stand than the fact that Dick Cheney and George W. Bush still say they did the right thing. With their track record, you know they still don't get it.
 
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fholbert said:
Clearly, you've never been to Branson MO.
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To this and the other posts in regards to what I wrote, I'm talking about the national level - the United States of America. Not what some idiots in certain towns think. We do not have settlements forced on other peoples' lands, we do not - at the national level - claim that America is a Christian land. The first amendment gives you the right to choose. Again, barring individual people and towns that may be heavily pro-Christian-only. The US is nothing like Israel.
 
BobDDuck said:
Not at all what I said.

Joe said it feel strange to be walking around in uniform after a plane crash. I said it's even more strange to be walking around in uniform after a plane crash when it was the same type that you fly and happened just a few hundred miles away from where you are walking around. I was referencing the morning that CMR went off the end of the runway in Lexington.
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Ah I gotcha
 
tomokc said:
Arkansas. Always turbulent, nowhere to safely land off-airport, and I swear you can hear banjos anywhere below 10,000'.
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My home state. True on all statements, with these replies:
1. Stay around Va.
2. Off-field landings are full-stall into the treetops, or swim-to-shore ditchings.
3. You can! Why do you think we're so pro-gun down here?
 
RDoug said:
Seeing as we're off topic anyway, I'll just make one observation then shut up:

Before the Iraq invasion of 2003 we were specifically warned by regional experts here, our allies, and officials in the George Bush, Sr., administration that if we toppled Saddam Hussein we would destabilize the Persian Gulf, witness the dissolution of Iraq into separate feuding tribal states, and make Iran the undisputed regional superpower by taking away their only real check and balance.

We did it anyway, and we're witnessing today just how stupid the decision to invade was. I've no desire to repeat that mistake in other areas of the world, especially with our track record of screwing up the aftermath when we do intervene and then washing our hands of the mess we create after we've spent trillions in money we don't have and needlessly sacrificing military personnel for no real gain in national security.

And there is simply no better endorsement of that stand then the fact that Dick Cheney and George W. Bush still say they did the right thing. With their track record, you know they still don't get it.
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I think it probably makes for a very interesting discussion between the two President Bushes. This is what Bush Sr. had to say.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3019.htm

Pretty much called the mess we were in and which some people want us to get back into. I don't understand some people.

jynxyjoe said:
At the risk of sounding neo-con'ish, the world will continue to be interconnected more, not less. There's a big divide between economic sanctions and a shooting war though. We can operate in that arena with a collective of like minded countries.

The Israeli-Palestinian thing is a matter im leaving alone, just talking about the Ukrainian thing. Maybe we should start up another thread on it?
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What we are doing with targeted sanctions on Russia makes sense. Tightening the screws also makes sense. I'm fine with that kind of intervention.

If we're talking about sending troops in, I suggest we go by the LBJ philosophy. American boys should not be sent tens of thousands of miles away to do something [fill in the blank] boys should be doing themselves.
 
Yeah, the S always gets real when they start putting pictures of the victims on the TV with their loved ones crying.

It should though. People need to see how this silly nonsense affects people. The murderers need those images burned in their mind. Not that they care...
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Not only that, but apparently some of them were the foremost leaders in AIDS research. :(
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I probably have anti-bodies floating around in my body from some of the vaccines they produced.

Now, before you get all "OMIGAWD TONY HAS AIDS" on me, relax.

I was a healthy volunteer for the NIH for several years, and they tested various AIDS vaccines on me. They injected me with vaccines to see if antibodies would form in healthy volunteers who were not exposed to HIV, and then they went and tested them in the high risk population.
 
The early footage of the plane actually impacting the ground looks like it might have been taken by one of the militants who possibly shot it down. Notice the strategic, isolated location and the tank treads in the mud.
 
tonyw said:
I probably have anti-bodies floating around in my body from some of the vaccines they produced.

Now, before you get all "OMIGAWD TONY HAS AIDS" on me, relax.

I was a healthy volunteer for the NIH for several years, and they tested various AIDS vaccines on me. They injected me with vaccines to see if antibodies would form in healthy volunteers who were not exposed to HIV, and then they went and tested them in the high risk population.
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"OMG TONY HAS VACCINES!!"
 
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