United reaching out to ALPA FFD Carriers

bronco21016 said:
Speaking of poaching. How crazy would it be if Parker, Anderson, and Smisek had a secret no poaching agreement similar to what's going on in court over Google, Apple, and several others in the tech industry. Someone better get to the bottom of this!

:stir:
Click to expand...

Why would Legacy pilots leave for the other Legacies?
 
ATN_Pilot said:
This is such simplistic thinking that it's barely worth addressing. The pilot labor market is not purely subject to the "invisible hand," especially at the regional level. With things like the National Mediation Board, the Railway Labor Act, and and oil price instability, it's a lot more complicated than you understand it to be. YOU DON'T HAVE LEVERAGE!
Click to expand...
I got plenty of levers up in here! I have power levers, AND condition levers!

:sarcasm:
 
Screaming_Emu said:
Care to speak in specifics?
Click to expand...
Yes,

Go to this site and read what he RAA is doing. http://takeflighttomorrow.org/

In particular see this page where the RAA openly describes its lobbying campaign.

http://takeflighttomorrow.org/document/recommendations-of-the-pilot-supply-task-force




Recommendations of the Pilot Supply Task Force
Executive Summary
  • Getting relief from the current 1,500 hour rule will be an uphill fight
  • Any hope of success will require a concerted, well-coordinated and fully participative grass roots effort from all our members, our Associate Members, and other Washington groups, potentially, AAAE, NASAO, et, al.
  • We need a concrete ask: Change the law? Pressure the FAA? Re-open the rulemaking? Technical corrections? Explore possible approaches, get to an “ask”
  • Recommend Board approval of our strategy outline, and authorization
    to retain specialists to assist in the process of building awareness.
Define the Problem
  • RAA now has several source materials to help quantify the depth of the pilot supply challenges.
  • Several factors play a role:
    -The new 1,500 hour rule
    – New flight and duty time productivity limitations
    – Age 65 attrition at mainline
    – High cost of education
  • FAA is unwilling to provide greater experience credit for higher education and academy training, unless directed to do so by Congress
  • Congress seems unwilling to re-write the law; no one wants to sponsor an amendment and risk getting blame for the next regional aviation accident
  • Absent some compromise, pilot resources will continue to be challenged
  • We believe the best approach is to find enough members of Congress to demand the FAA interpret the 1,500 hour rule to provide greater experience credit, urge FAA to expedite LOAs for non-certified training programs, and to consider loan guarantees*, grants, and other mechanisms to fund flight training (loan guarantees are only useful in conjunction with the other measures and not a full solution)
Coalition Building
  • A4A will not engage directly. They realize their desire to extract labor
    concessions from their regional suppliers in order to obtain lift at lower
    costs will not sit well with Congress
  • AAAE has the most to lose and may make a good coalition partner on
    the Hill
  • Universities and flight academies should be good partners, but they fall
    into the trap of supporting the belief that the problem is about low entry
    level pay
    – In order to bring them in our camp we need an outreach effort to get on the same page with messaging
  • Associate members have as much to lose as we do, and we should
    seek their support and direct participation in lobbying and outreach;
    again we will need them to provide a consistent message
  • Small communities, mayors and governors should also make strong
    advocates, but we need to identify who and how to gain alignment and
    momentum
Congress
  • RAA needs to identify multiple “thought leaders” with skin in the game
  • RAA staff, members and AMC must arm lawmakers with our data points, and ask them to push FAA hard on revising the rule quickly
  • RAA staff, members and AMC should ask Democrats to put the issue in front of the Administration for fresh consideration in light of service cuts
    – This is a jobs and economy issue ahead of the mid-term elections
  • RAA staff, members and AMC must share responsibility to educate selected members of Congress with whom they have influence
  • RAA staff will provide the materials, the strategy and the timeline to support a coordinated effort to lobby Congress before members go off to summer campaigning
  • Our objective will be to seek Members to use their influence with FAA to insist that FAA quickly provide further relief for university degree programs and other competency-based training programs, with the goal to reduce time down to 500 hours. This will be an aggressive ask
Media
  • We need to be more pro-active at controlling the message
    – This is not a safety issue
    – Quantity (flight time) does not equal quality (a safer pilot)
    – Increasing pay will not add any more qualified pilots to the pool of pilots available now
    – The problem is only going to get worse over time
    – Over the long term, we need a new approach to pilot training
    – Absent change, service will be disrupted at significant cost to the economy and jobs
  • RAA will identify media opportunities to get our message out
    – Wall Street Journal
    – Washington Post
    – New York Times
    – Chicago Tribune, etc..
    – Aviation Week
    – Airline Business
  • RAA Spring meeting should be all about obtaining reasonable relief from
    the current FAA limitations
Process and Timeline
  • Phase I: Message Development: In progress, following BOD vote materials will be revised by early April
  • Phase II: Explore external resources: Complete with
    any cost-estimates for BOD consideration by early April
  • Phase III: Coalition building: Ongoing; RAA reaching
    out to allies, Associate Members, further press in St.
    Louis early May
  • Phase IV: Active lobbying and media push to begin
    with approval of Deck and white paper, ongoing
    through balance of legislative session
Public Affairs / Lobbying Strategy
  • BOD should discuss and approve Advocacy materials
  • RAA staff outreach will include identifying and targeting lawmakers with lost or “at risk” air service points
  • RAA should explore editorial boards and other media outreach
  • RAA should explore Congressional audiences – (hearings, etc.)
  • RAA should harness independent experts to carry message
  • RAA should facilitate targeted CEO visits with lawmakers / regulators as appropriate on individual or small group basis
  • Each CEO should write (followed up by calls and possibly visits) each of their relevant lawmakers, armed with RAA supporting documents, asking them for assistance, and specifically, asking if they are willing to pressure the FAA on this issue
    – CEOs should visit with (or host) lawmakers in district
  • Recess periods: April 14-25 / May 26-30 / June 30 – July 4 / August 4 – Sept 5
Conclusion and Recommendations
  • The pilot supply problem is real and present
  • The problem will accelerate with age 65 attrition
  • The future of our industry has never been more threatened
  • We recommend a short-term approach to have Congress direct FAA to re-address experience credit with the objective to enable qualified pilots with 500 hours to qualify for a provisional ATP license and expedite
    approval for new entities providing credit for training
  • Over the longer term we need to completely re-design how we develop
    pilot vocations in the United States
  • We will come back to the Board for approval to engage media and lobbying support, if deemed necessary and cost effective
  • Thank you for your support
 
ATN_Pilot said:
This is such simplistic thinking that it's barely worth addressing. The pilot labor market is not purely subject to the "invisible hand," especially at the regional level. With things like the National Mediation Board, the Railway Labor Act, and and oil price instability, it's a lot more complicated than you understand it to be. YOU DON'T HAVE LEVERAGE!
Click to expand...

It would appear to be simplistic; if he RAA were not so concerned. See my post from the RAA site on the pilot shortage on page 11 of this thread. Read what their talking points to congress are. I believe there is leverage in this situation. The United ALPA MEC is starting to show some leadership.
 
Zapphod Beblebrox said:
It would appear to be simplistic; if he RAA were not so concerned. See my post from the RAA site on the pilot shortage on page 11 of this thread. Read what their talking points to congress are. I believe there is leverage in this situation. The United ALPA MEC is starting to show some leadership.
Click to expand...

The RAA is irrelevant. You still don't get it. You work for airlines that are in absolutely no control over their revenue situation. Their revenue is completely controlled by third parties, while their expenses are also almost completely out of their control. There is only one exception: labor costs. You are their controllable cost. The pilot shortage could reach epic proportions, and it still wouldn't mean anything, because they can't cut other costs in order to pay you more, and they don't control their pricing to be able to bring in more revenue. Wake up!
 
ClarkGriswold said:
Don't act like you've been wronged, hell, an ALPA guy who helped organize this didn't even get to register and he was logged on 20 mins prior! Maybe you'll have to work at obtaining your next job instead of convientely walking into class one day. This is a great thing, no one should be critical about what United is trying to do, sucks how it went down but the effort by them should be recognized as only positive. I thought you were getting out of flying anyways?
Click to expand...

Wait a second.

WORK to get a job?

Is that the same as going to Endeavor Awesome airlines and being an EtD pilot? Or waiting for my lucky lottery number to pop-up so I can go fly big jetz?
 
I doubt that. It used to be the other way around, where the Legacies would not hire from their own feed and take from the others.

If they arent "poaching" from the others, and only taking their own, they are hurting their own operation. Especially in a market where regionals are already having a hard time finding warm bodies from what I hear.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
The RAA is irrelevant.
Click to expand...

I disagree. They have WAY more lobbying dollars than the ALPA PAC does and as such are able to influence Congressional decision making more than we are. Just because they can't directly effect the revenue model that FFD carriers operate under, they sure as hell can effect the laws they operate under. And, even more importantly they can effect the public perception of how the model works.
 
@BobDDuck, you're talking about an entirely different subject. He's talking about the RAA being "concerned" about the pilot shortage, which is, again, irrelevant. Their concern does not translate into leverage, because no matter how "concerned" they are, they can't do anything about it, because they are inherently unable to control the revenue side of the equation.
 
blee256 said:
I doubt that. It used to be the other way around, where the Legacies would not hire from their own feed and take from the others.

If they arent "poaching" from the others, and only taking their own, they are hurting their own operation. Especially in a market where regionals are already having a hard time finding warm bodies from what I hear.
Click to expand...

I remember long ago when it was said that if you worked for Eagle, you'd never get hired to work for AA.
 
Maurus said:
We will see. I received my email at 12:05. I would imagine I have a good chance. The hard part is making sure I have the day off. We haven't even started the bid process for next month yet.

Hopefully more than just a few JCers got in.
Click to expand...


You know that regional airline management are going to be watching sick calls like a hawk on the effected days. I bet they have "spies" there taking pictures of attendees and comparing them against those who called in sick. Beware.
 
I wonder if ALPA had put those open house slots up for bid, instead of first come, how much those slots would have gone for?
 
Proud Pilot said:
You know that regional airline management are going to be watching sick calls like a hawk on the effected days. I bet they have "spies" there taking pictures of attendees and comparing them against those who called in sick. Beware.
Click to expand...
FYI: There are a lot of reasons to say you are unfit for work besides calling in sick. The IMSAFE check list is one or taking some medicines.
 
I know that if I was in regional airline management, I'd have my people there taking pictures and getting names of attendees and comparing them against my sick call list for that day.
 
Proud Pilot said:
I know that if I was in regional airline management, I'd have my people there taking pictures and getting names of attendees and comparing them against my sick call list for that day.
Click to expand...
What would you do once you got those pictures and compared? Think about what you are saying before you answer.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top