US Army tribal aircraft names are racist.....

[MikeD]

Three times, too.

1) EC145 selection as the LUH
2) delivered without A/C when it can't be flown doors off/open (NTC had one of the first units)
3) choosing it as the primary trainer -- yes, the first helicopter the Rucker students will fly. IIRC touchdown autos are not authorized in the 145. "BUT it's a twin, you'll never have to autorotate."

It goes along with the Cheyenne, Comanche (LHX), ARH, OH58F -- all models of Army efficiency. And let's not forget this idea they can use 23,000 lb Apaches to run the Cav/Scout mission. Definitely got the best and the brightest running the show.

Army General directed Eurocopter to remove the A/C and paid to have it removed. Then after the above and realizing it was needed and not just a nicety, the Army paid to have them reinstalled. So much for "off the shelf"...

 

[Deleted member 27505]

Figures you'd drive a BMW. You're probably Italian and/or from the North-East and you drive like an eliminatory organ. Scum of the earth!

I sir, am an upstanding member of the Baptist Church. More specifically, like Phillips, The Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Church Great Lakes Region, Council of 1879. You, you apostate, are apparently a Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Church Great Lakes Region, Council of 1912, and shall, therefore, suffer the eternal fires of Hades, which you deserve for the mere suggestion that I would drive a BMW.

 

[Deleted member 27505]

Sounds kind of like the "new order" of F/W training. You don't need stall training, we'll just tell you not to stall! Seems reasonable.

You want pithy sound bytes? Just say NO to stalls.

 

[Boris Badenov]

You, you apostate, are apparently a Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Church Great Lakes Region, Council of 1912, and shall, therefore, suffer the eternal fires of Hades, which you deserve for the mere suggestion that I would drive a BMW.

.

Oh, it's much worse than that, friend. Southern Baptist. Well, putatively. And herein lies the great rub. When they trotted us out to be washed in the water/blood/whatever fluids of the lamb, I opted out. I rather imagine that Our Heavenly Father considers me to be "unaffiliated". To be fair, so do I. But I can tell you what I'll never drive...

 

[Boris Badenov]

You want pithy sound bytes? Just say NO to stalls.

This is your brain on stall-avoidance-training?

 

[pete2800]

If I owned the Redskins, I'd change the mascot and logo to a potato, keep the name, and tell everyone to pound sand.

 

[deadstick]

You want pithy sound bytes? Just say NO to stalls.

The difference is, sometimes, pilot technique doesn't do jack for an a%#hole with an RPG.

I recall a story (funny thing is that I recounted this once before on a forum and the pilot it happened to was there) told to me by one of the unit IP's.

A guy he knew was flying a brand spankin' new Bell 222 (for those lesser, f/w-only pilots, that's Airwolf ) for a medical center. He went to training (I think FSI) and discovered they didn't cover autorotations. He was told "It's a twin. You won't have to worry about autos."

Luckily, he got his training from the US Army because, in case you didn't see this coming, a few months later he had to autorotate due to an "uncontained, contagious engine failure." One engine came apart and the turbine pieces took out the other engine.

New pilots still need to be taught the basics, and old(er) pilots still should do the refresher training. One other thing about autos: to heck with power recoveries. To me, the last 10 ft is always the most challenging.

I'll finish this with some thoughts from Harry Reasoner (FMI click below).
"There is no such thing as a gliding helicopter."
"...helicopter pilots are brooders, introspective anticipators of trouble. They know if something bad has not happened, it is about to. "
He gets it.

 

[Proud Pilot]

.....according to some on the politically correct aisle, following the Washington Redskins debate.

The US Army had traditionally named their aircraft after American indian tribes, beginning from when they started having aircraft as a standalone service post-WWII separate from the USAF. (ie- not including the Army Air Corps timeframe).

Aircraft such as:

OH-13 Sioux
UH-1 Iroquois
U-21 Ute
U-8 Seminole
OV-1 Mohawk
UH-72 Lakota
OH-6 Cayuse
OH-58 Kiowa
CH-54 Tarhe
CH-47 Chinook

....are all apparently racist names and demeaning to American Indians.....according to no American Indians at all, but only to politically correct non-indian people.

By this same logic, is Piper Aircraft corporation also racist and demeaning to American Indians, for their:

PA-42 Cheyenne
PA-34 Seneca
PA-44 Seminole
PA-31 Navajo
PA-28 Cherokee,
...and others?

".......In the United States today, the names Apache, Comanche, Chinook, Lakota, Cheyenne and Kiowa apply not only to Indian tribes but also to military helicopters. Add in the Blackhawk, named for a leader of the Sauk tribe. Then there is the Tomahawk, a low-altitude missile, and a drone named for an Indian chief, Gray Eagle. Operation Geronimo was the end of Osama bin Laden.

Why do we name our battles and weapons after people we have vanquished? For the same reason the Washington team is the Redskins and my hometown Red Sox go to Cleveland to play the Indians and to Atlanta to play the Braves: because the myth of the worthy native adversary is more palatable than the reality — the conquered tribes of this land were not rivals but victims, cheated and impossibly outgunned.

The destruction of the Indians was asymmetric war, compounded by deviousness in the name of imperialist manifest destiny. White America shot, imprisoned, lied, swindled, preached, bought, built and voted its way to domination. Identifying our powerful weapons and victorious campaigns with those we subjugated serves to lighten the burden of our guilt. It confuses violation with a fair fight.

It is worse than denial; it is propaganda. The message carried by the word Apache emblazoned on one of history’s great fighting machines is that the Americans overcame an opponent so powerful and true that we are proud to adopt its name. They tested our mettle, and we proved stronger, so don’t mess with us. In whatever measure it is tribute to the dead, it is in greater measure a boost to our national sense of superiority. And this message of superiority is shared not just with U.S. citizens but with those of the 14 nations whose governments buy the Apache helicopters we sell. It is shared, too, with those who hear the whir of an Apache overhead or find its guns trained on them. Noam Chomsky has clarified the moral stakes in provocative, instructive terms: “We might react differently if the Luftwaffe were to call its fighter planes ‘Jew’ and ‘Gypsy.’......... ”

Story here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...c18738-fc9a-11e3-932c-0a55b81f48ce_story.html

The best racist squadron was Heavy 5. VAH-5 Savage Sons of Sanford. Flying the whale.

 

[Bumblebee]

.....according to some on the politically correct aisle, following the Washington Redskins debate.

TO be fair, all the names you mentioned were tribal names, but calling any one of those people a "Redskin" was a derogatory term.

 

[Pichettet1]

Three times, too.

1) EC145 selection as the LUH
2) delivered without A/C when it can't be flown doors off/open (NTC had one of the first units)
3) choosing it as the primary trainer -- yes, the first helicopter the Rucker students will fly. IIRC touchdown autos are not authorized in the 145. "BUT it's a twin, you'll never have to autorotate."

It goes along with the Cheyenne, Comanche (LHX), ARH, OH58F -- all models of Army efficiency. And let's not forget this idea they can use 23,000 lb Apaches to run the Cav/Scout mission. Definitely got the best and the brightest running the show.

AND our 15T's can't even touch them unless they have their A&P. What a mess we've made.

 

[RDoug]

What's wrong with BMW? Mine's a nice, South Carolina-made example that's a lot of fun to drive.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

TO be fair, all the names you mentioned were tribal names, but calling any one of those people a "Redskin" was a derogatory term.

While doing some volunteer work on a reservation about 20 years ago, this Redskin fan asked about the use of the word. Respondents were split between not thinking it was offensive and not caring one way or another.

Context matters. Historically, it's a mixed bag. The reluctance of large segments of the American Indian population to give a f&@k is instructive.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

.....according to some on the politically correct aisle, following the Washington Redskins debate.

The US Army had traditionally named their aircraft after American indian tribes, beginning from when they started having aircraft as a standalone service post-WWII separate from the USAF. (ie- not including the Army Air Corps timeframe).

Aircraft such as:

OH-13 Sioux
UH-1 Iroquois
U-21 Ute
U-8 Seminole
OV-1 Mohawk
UH-72 Lakota
OH-6 Cayuse
OH-58 Kiowa
CH-54 Tarhe
CH-47 Chinook

....are all apparently racist names and demeaning to American Indians.....according to no American Indians at all, but only to politically correct non-indian people.

By this same logic, is Piper Aircraft corporation also racist and demeaning to American Indians, for their:

PA-42 Cheyenne
PA-34 Seneca
PA-44 Seminole
PA-31 Navajo
PA-28 Cherokee,
...and others?

".......In the United States today, the names Apache, Comanche, Chinook, Lakota, Cheyenne and Kiowa apply not only to Indian tribes but also to military helicopters. Add in the Blackhawk, named for a leader of the Sauk tribe. Then there is the Tomahawk, a low-altitude missile, and a drone named for an Indian chief, Gray Eagle. Operation Geronimo was the end of Osama bin Laden.

Why do we name our battles and weapons after people we have vanquished? For the same reason the Washington team is the Redskins and my hometown Red Sox go to Cleveland to play the Indians and to Atlanta to play the Braves: because the myth of the worthy native adversary is more palatable than the reality — the conquered tribes of this land were not rivals but victims, cheated and impossibly outgunned.

The destruction of the Indians was asymmetric war, compounded by deviousness in the name of imperialist manifest destiny. White America shot, imprisoned, lied, swindled, preached, bought, built and voted its way to domination. Identifying our powerful weapons and victorious campaigns with those we subjugated serves to lighten the burden of our guilt. It confuses violation with a fair fight.

It is worse than denial; it is propaganda. The message carried by the word Apache emblazoned on one of history’s great fighting machines is that the Americans overcame an opponent so powerful and true that we are proud to adopt its name. They tested our mettle, and we proved stronger, so don’t mess with us. In whatever measure it is tribute to the dead, it is in greater measure a boost to our national sense of superiority. And this message of superiority is shared not just with U.S. citizens but with those of the 14 nations whose governments buy the Apache helicopters we sell. It is shared, too, with those who hear the whir of an Apache overhead or find its guns trained on them. Noam Chomsky has clarified the moral stakes in provocative, instructive terms: “We might react differently if the Luftwaffe were to call its fighter planes ‘Jew’ and ‘Gypsy.’......... ”

Story here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...c18738-fc9a-11e3-932c-0a55b81f48ce_story.html

Yeah, American Indians hate that proud warrior association and have been pretty vocal on the matter.

 

[deadstick]

AND our 15T's can't even touch them unless they have their A&P. What a mess we've made.

I hadn't heard that. Too bad their standard Army training (AIT) doesn't qualify them for the A&P. The FSDO my area gave them ZERO help because the soldiers didn't have any piston experience.

Unfortunately, that does not come as a surprise.

Still waiting to see what happens when the N-registered TH-67's hit the market. By the way, these aircraft have no FAA mx compliance history.

 

[deadstick]

What's wrong with BMW? Mine's a nice, South Carolina-made example that's a lot of fun to drive.

Yep....Bubba Makes Wheels at GSP.

I always think of Karl Childers. When they first started, that plant only made the roadsters. Those little things were all over the Upstate. All the employees were buying them at huge discounts. It was kinda funny to see, especially when we go a little ice.

 

[desertdog71]

Drop.the Washington part. That's the more offensive part.

 

[dustoff17]

I'm am poud to have flown the Creek, Kiowa Warrior, soon Balckhawk.
This dude can GFHimself.........

Is this a new one?

As for me; Seminole, Iroquois, Kiowa, Blackhawk, Huron, and the Sherpa (wait....oh great, now we've offended on two continents!)

This reminds me of the time when "The Washington Bullets" changed their name because they didn't want to be associated with crime. I hear they considered "The East Coast Bullets"

 

[deadstick]

Is this a new one?

Sounds like a downgrade....like all the KW folks getting 64 AQC's.
:stir:

 

[bunk22]

Red skin denotes bad assery, fierce warrior. The skins, at times, are just that, a few SB wins. People need to get laid, quit wasting time on non sense. As it is, I'm going flying, will try to avoid the Hadji 12.7mm guns that spray the air on take off every other day.

 

[killbilly]

I think naming the team Redskins was probably not the right thing to do but its really just a brand. I grew up in the DC area and that area is so devoted to that team and the brand. It will never change. Not once when I was living there did this topic about the name ever come up.

The times, they are a changin'. At least, that's the sense I get from the rumblings I hear around town. Most folks I have talked to, plus what I hear on the local talk radio, and the general sense of things is that it's really okay with the citizens here if they change the name.

The one who won't change it is Snyder.

EDIT - I don't live in lily-white NW DC either, so it's not just liberal guilt fueling the arguments for changing the name. Most folks around here seem to think that the name was fine, but it's 2014 and time to move on.