Complex... Multi or Single

Fly_Unity

Fly_Unity

Well-Known Member
Question.

If I send an applicant to a DPE for a ASEL commercial checkride, Part 61. Can he use a multi engine aircraft to meet some of the complex requirements? (performs the checkride in a single engine complex) Is this acceptable?

Reference 61.129

How about a 141 Commercial ASEL course. Does all the complex have to be a single engine aircraft or can some of it be a multi engine aircraft? (I understand the checkride needs to be done in a single).

Reference 141 Appendix D
 
You can use multiengine complex time for a single but not single engine complex for the multi. For part 61, no idea about 141 I never did that.

This is what a DPE told me
 
#1 no. When an applicant is taking a certification ride, he is acting PIC of the aircraft, not the DPE.

#2 If the 141 Commercial program is written that way and approved, yes, otherwise no.
Not all 141 programs are the same.
Part 141 is an outline of specific requirements, but can be written and approved in an infinite number of ways to comply with the bare bones requirements of part 141.
 
nosehair said:
#1 no. When an applicant is taking a certification ride, he is acting PIC of the aircraft, not the DPE.

#2 If the 141 Commercial program is written that way and approved, yes, otherwise no.
Not all 141 programs are the same.
Part 141 is an outline of specific requirements, but can be written and approved in an infinite number of ways to comply with the bare bones requirements of part 141.
Click to expand...


I guess you misunderstood my question...
 
Page 9 of the commercial PTS:
Aircraft and Equipment Required for the Practical Test
The commercial pilot—airplane applicant is required by 14 CFR section 61.45 to provide an airworthy, certificated aircraft for use during the practical test. This section further requires that the aircraft must:

1. be of U.S., foreign, or military registry of the same category, class, and type, if applicable, for the certificate and/or rating for which the applicant is applying;

Seems pretty straightforward to me.
 
Roger Roger said:
Page 9 of the commercial PTS:
Aircraft and Equipment Required for the Practical Test
The commercial pilot—airplane applicant is required by 14 CFR section 61.45 to provide an airworthy, certificated aircraft for use during the practical test. This section further requires that the aircraft must:

1. be of U.S., foreign, or military registry of the same category, class, and type, if applicable, for the certificate and/or rating for which the applicant is applying;

Seems pretty straightforward to me.
Click to expand...


I guess I didnt give a good description in the Original post.

Im not talking about checkrides. Im asking about the planes I can use to build hours to be elgible for the checkride.
 
The easy 61.129 answer is that the FAA is pretty good about telling what you need to meet a specific requirement. A requirement that refers to a category and or class must be in that same category or class. If not, no.

For examples, you need look no further than the first three dual requirement for the commercial single in 61.129(a)(3) (my emphasis):

(i) Ten hours of instrument training using a view-limiting device including attitude instrument flying, partial panel skills, recovery from unusual flight attitudes, and intercepting and tracking navigational systems. Five hours of the 10 hours required on instrument training must be in a single engine airplane;

(ii) 10 hours of training in an airplane that has a retractable landing gear, flaps, and a controllable pitch propeller, or is turbine-powered, or for an applicant seeking a single-engine seaplane rating, 10 hours of training in a seaplane that has flaps and a controllable pitch propeller;

(iii) One 2-hour cross country flight in a single engine airplane in daytime conditions that consists of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure;​

Does that help?
 
MidlifeFlyer said:

(ii) 10 hours of training in an airplane that has a retractable landing gear, flaps, and a controllable pitch propeller, or is turbine-powered, or for an applicant seeking a single-engine seaplane rating, 10 hours of training in a seaplane that has flaps and a controllable pitch propeller;
​
Does that help?
Click to expand...

I agree completely. However our inspector states otherwise due to this wording:

(3) 20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in Sec. 61.127(b)(1) of this part that includes at least--
(ii) 10 hours of training in an airplane that has a retractable landing gear, flaps, and a controllable pitch propeller, or is turbine-powered, or for an applicant seeking a single-engine seaplane rating, 10 hours of training in a seaplane that has flaps and a controllable pitch propeller;


Sec. 61.127(b)(1) states Single Engine operations.


Also he found an old FAQ that states the 10 hours of complex must be in a Single Engine for the 141 side. (Which uses the exact same verbage as Part 61). Therefore the "intent" of part 61 is that it has to be in a single only.
 
Fly_Unity said:
I agree completely. However our inspector states otherwise due to this wording:
Click to expand...
Interesting, so in his view, the difference between the single-engine requirement of

10 hours of training in an airplane that has a retractable landing gear, flaps, and a controllable pitch propeller, or is turbine-powered, or for an applicant seeking a single-engine seaplane rating, 10 hours of training in a seaplane that has flaps and a controllable pitch propeller;
Click to expand...

and the multi-engine requirement for

10 hours of training in a multiengine airplane that has a retractable landing gear, flaps, and controllable pitch propellers, or is turbine-powered, or for an applicant seeking a multiengine seaplane rating, 10 hours of training in a multiengine seaplane that has flaps and a controllable pitch propeller;
Click to expand...

means nothing. Oh well, you can't account for local inspectors who wish to make up their own rules.

BTW,
Sec. 61.127(b)(1) states Single Engine operations.
Click to expand...
And exactly where does 61.127(b)(1) say that?
 
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