The Airline That Shall Not Be Named...

jynxyjoe said:
Do I really have to spoon feed you every damn time we disagree?

Was Colgan started as a go around to another pilot groups contract? No
Click to expand...
No, but it was specifically bought to be the non-union growth machine airline. So what's the difference? Bottom line, planes that could be perfectly operated by 9E (in the TSA situation, the TSA pilots) were then sent to a non-union airline (Colgan in 9E case, GoJets in TSA case).

Was Colgan's existence ever sued by ALPA for beginning its life as a scope breaking airline? No.
Click to expand...
No, but there was a single carrier lawusit. A judge initially agreed and it would have paved the way for 9L and 9E to become one, but then the judge reversed own decision.

Here's a little gem from Colgan, btw............

Colgan Air, Inc.
KEEPING YOU INFORMED
THE PINNACLE PILOTS WANT YOUR FLYING
The Pinnacle pilots want your flying. Since Pinnacle Airlines Corp. acquired Colgan Air,
Inc., ALPA and its member pilots at Pinnacle Airlines, Inc., another subsidiary of our corporate
parent, Pinnacle Airlines Corp., have been tirelessly working to get you integrated into ALPA’s
pilot membership at Pinnacle Airlines, Inc. They tried to get you to vote for ALPA last year and
you said “No.” They have used the grievance and arbitration process in their contract with
Pinnacle Airlines, Inc. to try and force Pinnacle Airlines Corp. to restrict what Colgan can do.
And now they are back again to try and get you to voluntarily give up the independence you now
enjoy.
What is the grand design of ALPA’s Pinnacle pilots? Take a look at the “Parent
Agreement” they have proposed in the negotiations with Pinnacle Airlines, Inc. Under the
Parent Agreement, ALPA states it is trying to negotiate “job security and work preservation
provisions” in connection with its bargaining for a new CBA at Pinnacle Airlines, Inc. The Parent
Agreement would require our corporate parent, like Pinnacle Airlines, Inc., to be bound by the
job security and scope provisions of the Pinnacle pilot’s ALPA contract.
What does this mean for you? The Parent Agreement would effectively impose the
“Pinnacle Pilots’ Seniority List” on you, the Colgan pilots, and integrate Colgan with Pinnacle
Airlines, Inc. into a “single transportation system.” In other words, in the world according to the
Pinnacle Pilots and ALPA, Colgan’s new equipment will be flown by pilots on a combined
Colgan-Pinnacle pilot’s seniority list. Do you really want that?
Don’t take our word for it, ask ALPA for the language yourself.
If there was an integrated seniority list, who would win bids on your flying, you, or more
senior Pinnacle pilots? If you were on an integrated seniority list, who would be better protected
in a layoff, you or more senior Pinnacle pilots? Why do you think the Pinnacle pilots have
worked so hard to get you to be ALPA members? They certainly wouldn’t be pulling out all the
stops if they didn’t think it was better for them. Right now, they see you as potential
competitors. They want to eliminate the competition and create more opportunities for
themselves.
The scope proposal also limits Colgan to the aircraft that we have now by tail number
with no additional aircraft to be flown by Colgan pilots. What would this do to Colgan First
Officer opportunities to upgrade?
Look to your own self-interest. What is better for you and Colgan?



Colgan was an asset purchase by PNCL inc, had nothing to do with the pilots contract being violated. Pinnacle wasn't in contract negotiations for the Q and Trenery said, screw them we will buy Colgan.
Click to expand...
Come on, it's the same effect. Pinnacle was in contract negotiations with the company and ALPA representing the 9E pilots. Do you think for a second the 9E pilots couldn't have agreed to terms for Q400 flying in terms of pay/QOL? Buying Colgan was the union-busting move. A non-union airline given all the growth while downgrading and shrinking an ALPA 9E. Basically it was the same result as TSA pilots suffered after GoJets was flying Qs, er, I mean CRJ-700s.

By the way, XJ actually had an alter ego carrier called Big Sky. We killed them off. We've got a handle on alter egos.
Click to expand...

I do remember. And the shuffling of money to show MAIR holdings as bankrupt. It was complete BS.

Colgan was non union, that's about the worst thing that can be said when trying to hold them up to GoJets for parallel.
Click to expand...

A non-union bought (in 9E's case, and started up in TSA's case) in times of negotiations with a union carrier (9E in our case, TSA in their case). The initial reasoning for Colgan's purchase was the same as TSA Holding's startup of GoJets. The same effect, and same aftermath in terms of the union carrier (both 9E and TSA) had displaced and downgraded pilots while both Colgan and GoJets had street Captains or upgrading with very little experience/time.

Same effects, same results. I stand by my statement that it is hypocritical for anyone at Colgan to try and call out and deny a jumpseat for a GoJet pilot.
 
You stand by them all you want. It takes a big old heap of ignorance and unappreciation of facts and relevant legal definitions to write- never mind believe- this garbage. In other words, it "feels right" doesn't substitute facts and legal definitions. Why don't you just call them scabs too, as long as we are just throwing words around in bandy.

Vapid nonsense.
 
jynxyjoe said:
You stand by them all you want. It takes a big old heap of ignorance and unappreciation of facts and relevant legal definitions to write- never mind believe- this garbage. In other words, it "feels right" doesn't substitute facts and legal definitions. Why don't you just call them scabs too, as long as we are just throwing words around in bandy.

Vapid nonsense.
Click to expand...

It was the same exact thing in terms of results and aftermath. The same. You have no proof to show otherwise. Yes, I understand Colgan wasn't a startup to circumvent 9E, but the whole thing was non-union and brought to be the union-busting airline. The aftermath in terms of what happened to the 9E pilots and the TSA pilots was the exact same. For an inexplicable reason, you can't seem to accept that.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
It was the same exact thing in terms of results and aftermath. The same. You have no proof to show otherwise. Yes, I understand Colgan wasn't a startup to circumvent 9E, but the whole thing was non-union and brought to be the union-busting airline. The aftermath in terms of what happened to the 9E pilots and the TSA pilots was the exact same. For an inexplicable reason, you can't seem to accept that.
Click to expand...
Can you start a YouTube channel so I can watch how upset you get over something you have little to no control over?
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
It was the same exact thing in terms of results and aftermath. The same. You have no proof to show otherwise. Yes, I understand Colgan wasn't a startup to circumvent 9E, but the whole thing was non-union and brought to be the union-busting airline. The aftermath in terms of what happened to the 9E pilots and the TSA pilots was the exact same. For an inexplicable reason, you can't seem to accept that.
Click to expand...
I find it funny how you are talking about a non-union carrier causing issues for a union carrier considering you are at a below standard non-union carrier.

You could easily cause the same problem for another larger carrier if you get bought out. Are you going to put the time and effort into fixing your potential problem like @Seggy did or just sit around and make excuses for what are ultimately your bad decisions?
 
Maurus said:
I find it funny how you are talking about a non-union carrier causing issues for a union carrier considering you are at a below standard non-union carrier.

You could easily cause the same problem for another larger carrier if you get bought out. Are you going to put the time and effort into fixing your potential problem like @Seggy did or just sit around and make excuses for what are ultimately your bad decisions?
Click to expand...

My non-union carrier has not been bought by a bigger union airline to be used as a growth machine to pressure and displace/downgrade that larger carrier. So no, there is no comparison in the two different cases. If my carrier is bought out then I expect nothing better than a staple and just be lucky to have a job at that larger carrier. Non-union airlines usually get totally screwed in a merger so that's about what I'd expect. And what do you mean make excuses for my bad decisions? I haven't made an excuse for any place I've worked at.
 
jynxyjoe said:
Do I really have to spoon feed you every damn time we disagree?

Was Colgan started as a go around to another pilot groups contract? No

Was Colgan's existence ever sued by ALPA for beginning its life as a scope breaking airline? No.

Colgan was an asset purchase by PNCL inc, had nothing to do with the pilots contract being violated. Pinnacle wasn't in contract negotiations for the Q and Trenery said, screw them we will buy Colgan.

By the way, XJ actually had an alter ego carrier called Big Sky. We killed them off. We've got a handle on alter egos.

Colgan was non union, that's about the worst thing that can be said when trying to hold them up to GoJets for parallel.
Click to expand...

@Cherokee_Cruiser what he said above.

The only things I am going to add though is that you quoted management Kool-Aid in post 82, the day we found out we were bought by a unionized carrier we started a union drive for ALPA, and finally, didn't you get hired by Pinnacle AFTER the announced purchase? If you are so smart, why didn't you go to Colgan?
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
And what do you mean make excuses for my bad decisions? I haven't made an excuse for any place I've worked at.
Click to expand...
Actually yes you have. Your excuses are essentially a form of projection. You constantly complain about tons of different things about pinnacle and do your best to make it sound like that is why YOU got screwed. In reality you should have known what you were getting yourself into at 9E.

Colgan already being in the picture along with the reputation 9E management was rocking should have scared you away. Instead you let Jet U (of which you have defended for some stupid reason in the past) steer you toward 9E without you doing your due diligence.

When/if you get stapled on a list somewhere you will likely blame ALPA for screwing you rather than looking back at your decision to stick it out at Virgin knowing the risk.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top