Next 48 Hours Critical in Denying NAI and their application

Seggy

Well-Known Member
An amendment is in play during the next 48 hours (June 9–10) in the U.S. House of Representatives to deny NAI! The House will vote on an amendment by Reps. Lynn Westmoreland (R-Ga.) and Peter DeFazio (D-Ore.) during consideration of the FY 2015 Transportation Appropriations bill (H.R. 4745) to prohibit funding for a foreign air carrier permit that does not follow U.S. law and the U.S.-EU Open Skies Agreement, which specifically prohibits forum shopping for cheap labor. Debate starts at 2:00 p.m. Monday, with votes beginning at 6:30 p.m., so the time to act is now! Call your representative through the Capitol switchboard 202-224-3121 and urge him or her to vote YES on the Westmoreland-DeFazio Amendment to Deny NAI! Go to ALPA.org to take action to send an e-mail message to your representative.
 
Could someone in the know elaborate for those of us who aren't 121 what NAI stands for? I would research it myself, but just don't have the time right now. Thanks....
 
If you look at how the shipping industry in the United States was decimated under this scheme, NAI is trying to do the same thing.

Of course, all of our manufactured goods today are cheaper because of changes to the shipping industry. I argue that letting the shipping industry go to cheaper foreign labor has been a net gain for America.

That said, I'm undecided on this one. I don't care that much if a few containers that are insured end up in the Pacific. I care if it's potentially my friends and family.
 
This is the only piece of legislation that Westmoreland has co-sponsored that I could ever support.

Up until recently he ignored every attempt by ALPA Government Affairs to have a meeting with ALPA pilots in the district. I am glad to see some aspect of that change of heart has potential to help a significant portion of his district. It is, after all, an election year. And, he is running in a state that has a fair probability of seeing an increase in Democrats gaining leadership roles through out the state and in DC.
 
@Cloud Surfer

Here is a good article and some more material to look at....

http://time.com/7604/an-ultra-cheap-anti-union-upstart-airline-could-transform-flying/

http://www.alpa.org/portals/alpa/levelingtheplayingfield/

Basically, they are trying to create an airline that is operated under the flag of convince model. If you look at how the shipping industry in the United States was decimated under this scheme, NAI is trying to do the same thing.


Not that I do not have some reservations about the NAI set-up and possible precedence that it may set, but the Time article is inaccurate. The pilots at Norwegian Long Haul ( the current company ) are not Thai and they are not "cheap labor". They are, for the most part, Europeans and I hardly think that $14,000/month is cheap for a captain. Certainly it could be better, but many South American, African, Eastern European, and Asian widebody captains make significantly less money. They already have U.S. based American cabin crew. Those would have to be paid at least U.S. minimum wage and I'm sure they make more than that. It's not like Regional cabin crew make more than they do, so again, where is the problem?

Also , I understand what happened to the U.S. shipping industry but again I think the rhetoric being bantered about is somewhat fear mongering. This is not an airline being based in Liberia. It is Ireland and the EU. I personally know some Irish regulators and they are not incompetent in the least so I can't buy off an any lack of oversight or safety concerns from this current set-up of NAI.

All expansion in air travel creates jobs outside of aviation. It creates jobs in tourism, hotels, and many other ancillary services. The people who are gainfully employed in those jobs in the USA due to increased tourism and travel will then take vacations of their own, most likely on U.S. airlines. Not to mention that, in this case, NAI will buy Boeing products thus creating more revenue in the USA for even more jobs, creating more travel.

NAI itself is not a threat to U.S. carriers. They are small potatoes. It's not like a frequent flyer or business traveler is going to be buying tickets on them.

It's also difficult to understand where this supposed cheap labor is going to come from. It's not like there are 100,000 ( take your pick of cheap labor pilots in the world ) who are going to come take all these jobs. The bidding wars for pilots in Asia should be proof of that.

One thing that U.S. pilots, but more importantly, U.S. airline managers need to realize is that the USA is not the biggest air travel market in the world anymore. Well, perhaps it is still in pure numbers, but over time it's percentage is going down. As the rest of the world population reaches an income level where they can afford airline travel the international carriers grow larger and larger. There are whole middle class populations in India and China that are larger than the total population of the USA.

The rise is number of airplanes operating in Asia over the last 20 years is staggering. Same for the Middle East and now starting in Africa. That to me is opportunity. I think U.S. carriers should go after some of that traffic, where allowed under open skies policies. If not allowed, they should push for it with the help of the government where necessary. I think DAL should look seriously at a mini-hub in the Middle East to capture the Indian ( and rest of the sub-Continent ) market. Something akin to the NRT operation.

Protectionism is not a good long term strategy. It never really works over the long term because natural forces of supply and demand will dictate change.

Oh, and I wish it was understood that decimated actually means reduced by 10%. It is only colloquially correct in the sense used, but not technically correct. Destroyed would be a better word ;)





Typhoonpilot
 
Not that I do not have some reservations about the NAI set-up and possible precedence that it may set, but the Time article is inaccurate. The pilots at Norwegian Long Haul ( the current company ) are not Thai and they are not "cheap labor". They are, for the most part, Europeans and I hardly think that $14,000/month is cheap for a captain. Certainly it could be better, but many South American, African, Eastern European, and Asian widebody captains make significantly less money. They already have U.S. based American cabin crew. Those would have to be paid at least U.S. minimum wage and I'm sure they make more than that. It's not like Regional cabin crew make more than they do, so again, where is the problem?

Once again, and this ties into your other points, if this is approved it opens up a Pandora's box that will destroy aviation in the United States.

Also , I understand what happened to the U.S. shipping industry but again I think the rhetoric being bantered about is somewhat fear mongering. This is not an airline being based in Liberia. It is Ireland and the EU. I personally know some Irish regulators and they are not incompetent in the least so I can't buy off an any lack of oversight or safety concerns from this current set-up of NAI.

The Irish are being hypocrites here. Their safety board ripped apart the same type of scheme that they approved NAI for operation that caused a crash a few years ago from a Spanish Carrier. Ireland is known for their lax labor laws hence why NAI wants to set up shop there.

All expansion in air travel creates jobs outside of aviation. It creates jobs in tourism, hotels, and many other ancillary services. The people who are gainfully employed in those jobs in the USA due to increased tourism and travel will then take vacations of their own, most likely on U.S. airlines. Not to mention that, in this case, NAI will buy Boeing products thus creating more revenue in the USA for even more jobs, creating more travel.

How much does the cruise industry really help the US economy? Are the ships built here? Pay taxes here? Employ workers on the boat from the United States? Same concept. Also Boeing isn't a friend of labor.

NAI itself is not a threat to U.S. carriers. They are small potatoes. It's not like a frequent flyer or business traveler is going to be buying tickets on them.

The concept is. We aren't fighting NAI per se but we are fighting the concept.

It's also difficult to understand where this supposed cheap labor is going to come from. It's not like there are 100,000 ( take your pick of cheap labor pilots in the world ) who are going to come take all these jobs. The bidding wars for pilots in Asia should be proof of that.

We can't assume anything here.

One thing that U.S. pilots, but more importantly, U.S. airline managers need to realize is that the USA is not the biggest air travel market in the world anymore. Well, perhaps it is still in pure numbers, but over time it's percentage is going down. As the rest of the world population reaches an income level where they can afford airline travel the international carriers grow larger and larger. There are whole middle class populations in India and China that are larger than the total population of the USA.

The rise is number of airplanes operating in Asia over the last 20 years is staggering. Same for the Middle East and now starting in Africa. That to me is opportunity. I think U.S. carriers should go after some of that traffic, where allowed under open skies policies. If not allowed, they should push for it with the help of the government where necessary. I think DAL should look seriously at a mini-hub in the Middle East to capture the Indian ( and rest of the sub-Continent ) market. Something akin to the NRT operation.

Do you think Dubai World Airports would allow a US Carrier to set up a mini hub there? Furthermore, those places are served by our code share partners.

Destroyed would be a better word





Typhoonpilot

Very true.
 
Also Boeing isn't a friend of labor.

While I actually agree with Moak's push on NAI (one of his few legislative issues with which I actually agree), I think you're being a bit too simplistic with saying that Boeing isn't a friend of labor. Boeing employes a hell of a lot of unionized workers who have good union jobs. That's one of the reasons that I haven't been willing to jump on the Ex-Im Bank hatred bandwagon. The overall labor movement is supportive of the Bank because of the union jobs that it supports at Boeing. ALPA is the lone union voice fighting on that issue. So saying that Boeing "isn't a friend of labor" is really meaningless. No company is ever a friend of labor. But many companies employ a lot of union laborers.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top