'Any Non-Rev Pilots on board?'

But I would say, the first thing that does go with older guys is tack and patients .

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Can you blame them for not being "as sharp as a tack" when they get old? They're one step away from being patients at the nearest hospital!

And so as not to thread drift...Nice job done by the FO and a terrible job by Staff Sgt. Jacob Morgan on the fluff piece.
 
We actually had an old one stroke out. And had one go out on a major medical issues and at 68 vowed to make it back. I just hope I am well gone away from this industry at those ages.
 
When I non-rev they always give me over-wing seats, am sure they must know i'm a pilot somehow.
Several airlines don't pre-assign or auto-assign seats in the exit row, they have to be assigned in person as the person there needs to meet the exit row criteria. Plus, there is usually extra leg-room making these highly desirable seats, and cool gate agents will save them for the non-revs if they aren't already taken and no one comes up and asks for them. Result, you always get over-wing seats. I just solved your mystery.
 
Damn, I was sure there was a magic code on my pax info. Not that I've ever opened a wing exit before, but am happy to get those seats though if that's what needed
 
If there was a commercial pilot in the back and you left them "standby" in the cabin, and then you do something like maybe run off the end of the runway or some other incident that might be explained by you being distracted or overworked how are you going to explain that? Even a private pilot can talk on the radios, and then thats one thing you don't have to do.

Spiral, This is not directed at you but just issues at hand and maybe give folks something to think about.

When you say "commercial pilot" are you talking about someone with 250 hrs in single engine Cessna's or a commercial airline pilot with possible hundreds or thousands of hours in type. It really does make difference.

And, in thinking along your stated line of reasoning, let's say you let someone up front that is not current and/or qualified on that aircraft and you go off the end of the rwy. Was it because you were distracted giving flight instruction to your newly appointed "crewmember"? Did that person accidently flip a switch, push a button, misunderstand your instructions and disable something at the wrong time, yell..."Yeeeee-Haaaaw" while in the flare causing you to flub the landing? The lawyers would have a field day and the company would probably fire you. Unfortunately, in our sue happy society that is something to think about.

Bottom line, you are just as liable if you let someone up front as if you didn't. Damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of thing. You have to weigh your options, the severity of the situation and the asset/liability credentials of who you let up front. That's why I'd be looking for a crewmember from the same company and qualified on the aircraft I'm flying. That's a no brainer and easy decision if you have an asset like that in the back. I don't have time nor the inclination to instruct a private pilot on the switchology of modern jet communication consoles or the verbage to be used during communication with ATC, company and FA's in the back.

Also, If you think talking on the radio is as simple as pushing a button I'd love to put anyone with just a private license in a MD11, A300 or B757 sim and have them call ATC, notify the company and talk to folks in the back with little help from me....I mean, you are up there to help me, right? It's not the other way around. If I have to distract myself from what I'm doing to explain things to you.....how does that help me?

Simple tasks such as reading or understanding normal checklist, let alone, abnormal/emergency checklist for the uninitiated can become overwhelming to say the least. I can actually do it faster and more efficiently myself and still fly and monitor the autopilot. It's not an ego thing nor am I boasting. Any qualified airline pilot should be able to perform all task required to safely get the airplane back on the ground and doing so solo. It's just easier, safer and more efficient when two "qualified" crewmembers split the tasks.

BTW, I have been stressful situations. One time we lost the main hyd system on the A300 and the hyd eng pump almost took out the entire engine while going into KEWR). The implication of that would've been the failure of 2 out of 3 hyd systems, engine failure, manually cranking the gear down and no nose wheel steering upon landing. Both myself and the f/o (it was his first flight after completing IOE and who did an outstanding job!!) were very busy and there were also other issues that complicated the problems we were already having.

On our list of to-do's we had to manually extend the gear. On the A300 it requires inserting a long metal rod (no porn jokes!) in the floor and turning for what seems like an eternity to get it to free fall and lock in place (kinda like the B727 days). The f/o was very task saturated running checklist and communicating with ATC/company etc, that he failed to make my coffee the way I like it...that's the real tragedy Here!! :p

Seriously though, we happened to have a DC8 FE riding in the back. We got him up there and had him break a sweat while cranking down the gear.....annnnd, making my coffee! We were glad to have an extra pair of hands that day from another experienced crewmember from the same company riding in the back. , I'd like to say that it was my f/o's idea to get the extra crewmember to crank the gear down.....great idea and I told him so! He's now a 744 Capt in ANC.
 
Damn, I was sure there was a magic code on my pax info. Not that I've ever opened a wing exit before, but am happy to get those seats though if that's what needed
They're great seats, can't beat them if you're stuck in coach. Random story time. When I was a gate agent, I once had a midget ask me if he could have the exit row because he wanted extra leg room. I laughed because I thought he was joking. He wasn't. It was awkward.
 
The FFA did a study on this several years ago. They used a random sample of pilots with a variety of experience levels for the study. They took these pilots into a sim (737 I think) and told them the pilot had died, they were now the PIC, they would get anything ATC could give provided they request it.

The study was to determine the usefulness of the pilot in a non-familiar cockpit. Very interesting study.

I think AOPA had an article on this study.
 
The FFA did a study on this several years ago. They used a random sample of pilots with a variety of experience levels for the study. They took these pilots into a sim (737 I think) and told them the pilot had died, they were now the PIC, they would get anything ATC could give provided they request it.

The study was to determine the usefulness of the pilot in a non-familiar cockpit. Very interesting study.

I think AOPA had an article on this study.


That exact scenerio happened in a job interview I've done. It was in a straight wing citation FTD though. Just so happen I got .5 in a straight wing citation with a certain JC user a couple of years earlier. :) Couple that with flying the metro single pilot for years and it was a piece of cake.
 
If there was a commercial pilot in the back and you left them "standby" in the cabin, and then you do something like maybe run off the end of the runway or some other incident that might be explained by you being distracted or overworked how are you going to explain that? Even a private pilot can talk on the radios, and then thats one thing you don't have to do.

I'm quite confident in my abilities to fly a stabilized approach and work the radios.

I'd certainly be using every bit of the resources around me the whole time -- obviously priority handling from ATC, autopilot on all the way down, etc.


Managing an emergency is about getting back to normal to the extent possible. Running a QRH and then making deliberate, thought-out decisions.

Bringing someone who is completely unfamiliar into the cockpit, during an emergency that is already in progress, is straying significantly further from normal operations.

Single pilot or not, I, and anyone else, could get the thing on the ground in 10 minutes if the location lent itself to it.

Really no big deal. Might even be time to make a "thanks for flying with us today" P.A. on the way down. :)
 
While there are thousands of possible scenarios that could play out, I would be hard pressed to put someone in a seat up front that wasn't pretty familiar with those surroundings. Another 121 person or a recently retired person etc... who could answer interphones, convey my intentions to the rest of the crew or just offer some basic assistance would probably be useful. In my opinion, having to explain to someone unfamiliar to my world how he or she was going to help me would be distracting and take away from my primary responsibility of getting my passengers safely on the ground. I think a flight attendant, mechanic, dispatcher or almost anybody with a clear thinking mind could serve the role if you absolutely felt that you needed someone up front. Company manuals and rules are out the door when something like this happens - you just have to be a calm and competent captain and do what the situation calls for, regardless of what seat you are sitting in.
 
If there was a commercial pilot in the back and you left them "standby" in the cabin, and then you do something like maybe run off the end of the runway or some other incident that might be explained by you being distracted or overworked how are you going to explain that? Even a private pilot can talk on the radios, and then thats one thing you don't have to do.
Don't bend anything, and there won't be anything to explain. I'd rather make my own radio calls than try to play a game of ATC telephone with a someone who doesn't know what's going on.

Company pilot, type-rated non company pilot, current 121 pilot for monitoring purposes. That pretty much covers who I think I'd find useful.
 
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I always figured that stopping the plane on the runway or on a high speed and getting emergency crews on the aircraft ASAP would be a good idea. Maintenance could tug the aircraft to the gate after.

That is exactly what my buddy did after his captain died inflight. He exited the runway, shut down and had it towed. Just did not feel comfortable taxing a DC-10 for the first time.

I agree with a previous poster. I would not use another pilot from the back unless he was with my company. Nothing against military (I am ex military) but every airliner I have flown would not be that difficult to fly solo. Heck, sometimes I feel like I am flying solo with the F/O sitting next to me. :-)
 
I agree with a previous poster. I would not use another pilot from the back unless he was with my company. Nothing against military (I am ex military) but every airliner I have flown would not be that difficult to fly solo. Heck, sometimes I feel like I am flying solo with the F/O sitting next to me. :-)


Believe it or not but a second pilot can help. Sure I could fly single pilot no problem but even someone to help out with radios is a workload reduction. No reason not to use all resources possible. Less workload = less chances for error.

Obviously skill level should be evaluated since a 172 driver would likely be a bit behind and may not talk to ATC very often. Someone that is military, 135, 121 or 91 corporate could definitely help reduce workload of used properly.
 
Believe it or not but a second pilot can help. Sure I could fly single pilot no problem but even someone to help out with radios is a workload reduction. No reason not to use all resources possible. Less workload = less chances for error.

To me the question is not whether or not a second pilot can help.

I know they can.

The question is, in the middle of an emergency unfolding, do I have the time I need to bring them up to speed on how to help me?

I think not.
 
To me the question is not whether or not a second pilot can help.

I know they can.

The question is, in the middle of an emergency unfolding, do I have the time I need to bring them up to speed on how to help me?

I think not.

This is where I'm leaning. I'd bring another 121 pilot up without a doubt. If the FA said there was a uniformed fractional/135 pilot, I might do that too for monitoring (a lot of them are former 121 anyway). But any commercial pilot? No. Just not worth the hassle.
 
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