Personal minimums

97victor

97victor

Well-Known Member
Hey guys,

I'm having a bit of an issue trying to figure out exactly how to set these and what are appropriate. I'm a fairly new private pilot with about 70 hours and was planning a cross country from KCHD to Mesquite, NV to golf this weekend. Checking the weather it looks like there is a slight chance of rain. I guess my question is, how did you more experienced guys set your minimums? I really don't think I should go off flying into a storm but should I shy away from a little rain? I'm worried that if my minimums are too restrictive then I won't become a better pilot. Is it imprudent to launch into conditions that might carry a 10% chance of the need to divert? Personally I think the best way to learn about weather is to fly in and around it, but then again I'm very new and would welcome any and all advice.

Thanks a lot!
 
Personal Min's are just that, personal...my mins at 70 hours would probably differ from yours and would probably differ from anyone on this sites. It's all about risk management. You need to assess the reasons for the flight, and weigh potential risks based on the information you have (ie weather briefing, equipment, divert locations, etc). I got my PPL / Instrument in PHX, so I was definitely weather shy. I did my CMEL / CSEL in Chicago...in the winter, so I've learned how to factor those risks into my planning a little more. I think you have to look at the route of flight as well, do you multiple spots along your route that will allow you to divert if necessary? I assume you've learned the "PAVE" acronym for Risk Management, Pilot / Aircraft / enVironment / External Pressures. That's my simple go to to help cover the basics before I yell "Clear Prop!".

http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/media/faa-h-8083-2.pdf
 
97Victor - There's a big difference between personal mins for a low-time private pilot like yourself and the big dogs who frequent this board. Nevertheless, learn from them.

Your world for now will require good visibility and ceilings. When either deteriorates, start putting your Plan B into effect (you've got a Plan B ready to go, right?). "A little rain" is a dangerous term for a pilot like you. Flying into a little virga during the day could quickly put you in IMC, pitch you into an unusual attitude and you'll be done.

Know how to get out of trouble safely. If the aircraft doesn't have an autopilot, trim for level flight, keep your head still, develop an instrument scan, execute a wide, smooth 180-degree turn, then determine what went wrong that lured you into IMC.

Have this discussion with your CFI(s) and even your examiner, and fly with other pilots whenever you have the chance, especially instrument-rated pilots going into the goo. Read every accident report you can on unintended flight into IMC. There's no shortage of them.
 
I remember being a noob in your shoes. During a cross country there was a veil of rain, it was light enough to see through the other side. I debated and went for it. Nothing happened other than the plane got a free 30 second wash.

Always leave yourself a way out. Be prudent but not paranoid. I've flown through countless patches of virga, and unlike as suggested above, never went IMC for more than a few seconds, never got bounced into an unusual attitude, or ended up done, lol. Virga is usually just a recipe for moderate chop.
 
A little rain shouldn't be a show stopper. The first time you fly in rain you will hear new sounds and it will be a bit different looking through a wet windshield, but you'll get accustomed to it. If you are accustomed to flying with 100 mile visibility you'll be surprised when you encounter 10 mile visibility in rain, but remember that 10 miles is about as good as it gets for long stretches of the summer in the SE and Midwest, and folks manage just fine.

You could try this route: KCHD - KSDL - V257 or V105 - DRK - V502 - PGS - V235 - MMM - 67L. This will take you along established routes that take in to consideration terrain, radio coverage, and NAVAID coverage. You can talk to Flight Service along the route to update the weather, and you can give PIREPs in return.

Rain, per se, is not a problem, but low ceilings and visibility are. You can get an early sense of the ceilings and visibilities you might be encountering by, the day before your planned departure, watching the Wx at reporting stations that are already in the system that will be crossing your route. If they are reporting VFR ceilings and vis then you might see similar conditions. If they are reporting IFR then that's what you might encounter.

Don't be thrown for a loop by Wx reports of MVFR: you can fly all day long in MVFR just fine. It's when you don't pay attention and fly from MVFR into IFR that you can get a surprise. And if that happens don't freak out. As others have already said, make a note of your current heading, get on the gauges, make a standard rate 180 degree turn, and fly back to clear Wx. Or, just descend until you can see the ground better (bearing in mind the local terrain elevation).

A 10% chance of rain should not be a show stopper. Look for the ceiling and vis figures and then make your decision. Have fun: it looks like a fun trip.
 
Thanks a lot for the quick replies. I suppose I should have worded it how did you set your minimums when you were a freshly minted private pilot, because we've all been there. And in regards to plan B, I've had a plan C and plan D on all of my flying away from the practice area. I'll definitely take all the advice I can get and just be as safe as I possibly can.
 
Of course do whatever makes you comfortable. It's supposed to be fun. Just don't let an overly cautious CFI/flight school influence your decision making, as was the case with my flying. A lot of flight schools set a lot of bogus weather/fuel minimums that just aren't practical.
 
Something to add since it doesn't sound like you have much experience flying in the southwest - flying under Virga is generally a bad idea because you'll usually experience very strong downdrafts.


East of the Mississippi it's generally safe to fly through rain if you can see through it.
 
Try booking a little time with a CFI and have him or her take you into the clouds. There is a big difference between simulated and actual instrument conditions. Clearly, use your new actual instrument skills in emergencies only. Fly with more experienced pilots. Fly solo and push your boundaries a little at a time. Mainly, just keep flying and try to learn something new every time you log a flight.
 
Pachong said:
Of course do whatever makes you comfortable. It's supposed to be fun. Just don't let an overly cautious CFI/flight school influence your decision making, as was the case with my flying. A lot of flight schools set a lot of bogus weather/fuel minimums that just aren't practical.
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I trained part 61 and my cfi (who happens to be my future father in law) definitely put me through the ringer and made me do some things that I'm sure a lot of flight schools wouldn't allow their students to do, and for that I'm grateful. The only thing we really couldn't find was weather so I'm still a virgin when it comes to flying through rain.
 
I don't necessarily agree with the "if you don't feel like it's right, don't do it" crowd. You're still a brand new pilot, so A LOT of things that are normal to myself, and others here, won't feel right to you. That doesn't make it wrong however. I've always used the example of my time building days, when I would frequently go up on 'iffy' days in order to slowly expand my comfort zone. An 'Iffy' day could be a day where it was clear VFR, but very hazy, with maybe only 7-10 miles of vis. I flew and trained with guys who only flew when it was severe clear/calm, but I pushed myself to get used to flying even when I couldn't see 20miles ahead. It doesn't "feel" right at first, but you quickly realize that it's still perfectly safe, and you still have plan B, C, D etc because you're still flying in VFR conditions.

Your skill probably exceeds your comfort level at this point, and that's a very good place to be. SLOWLY push yourself into new comfort zones, and that will help you set your personal minimums.
 
I agree with @Mark815, if you never push yourself you'll never increase your personal mins. Just make sure you are doing your due diligence on the ground and in the air. Check your weather on the ground then continue to check it enroute to make sure it's doing what you thought it was going to do and NEVER be afraid to change course.
 
I guess plan as best as possible and gather all available weather information. Rain alone is not a reason not to fly. I've made it a point to take students through rain so they see the wings won't melt off. Obviously peoples biggest concern is getting into IMC, but it doesn't always go hand in hand with rain. Flight following, gps/foreflight if available, make passengers scan for traffic, use everything you have available. End of the day you're PIC only you will know if its a go or not. Best of luck.
 
I never really had "personal minimums" that were higher than those on the plate. I wouldn't take a 172 through thunderstorms or anything like that, but if it was 200 1/2 with a fog layer, I had no problem doing that. That is how I did my training, and that is how I flew. I don't fault anyone for setting personal minimums that are higher than on the approach plate, but I do think it is a stupid mentality to not shoot an ILS that is 200 1/2, and your minimums are 500 1. If you don't think you have the ability to take an airplane 300 feet lower, you shouldn't be an instrument pilot. PERSONAL OPINION.
 
Inverted said:
I never really had "personal minimums" that were higher than those on the plate. I wouldn't take a 172 through thunderstorms or anything like that, but if it was 200 1/2 with a fog layer, I had no problem doing that. That is how I did my training, and that is how I flew. I don't fault anyone for setting personal minimums that are higher than on the approach plate, but I do think it is a stupid mentality to not shoot an ILS that is 200 1/2, and your minimums are 500 1. If you don't think you have the ability to take an airplane 300 feet lower, you shouldn't be an instrument pilot. PERSONAL OPINION.
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Is he instrument rated?
 
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