Horizon Air Contract?

It all comes down to shear dumb luck, or right place right time. I was snubbed 6 times by my "dream" carrier. Even so far as watching those damned 2 year people taking "my job" who had no right to it. It's probably this attitude that made my journey to a major a marathon instead of a sprint.

Once I got over myself and realized that said carrier wanted nothing to do with me I got hired by a different major carrier very quickly. In really I think I hit the jackpot where I am now and that dream carrier, had it panned out, I wouldn't be sitting nearly as pretty.

Do I regret my time at the regionals? No. I got to experience a lot of different parts of the operation that made me a stronger dispatcher. I got to give competency checks. I even got to try my hand at instructing part 65. Was it frustrating as hell watching people with less experience move on? You betcha. However, they earned it and good for them. It's funny how life works out, but it does!
 
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BayouMLU said:
A positive attitude can't be taught in my experience. Just about anyone can be taught the finer points of dispatching or any job in this business for that matter. In that regard, experience is overrated, IMO.

It's a lesson I learned the hard way.
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Here's a thought.......Maybe you underrate experience because you don't have much experience ?
 
MT said:
It all comes down to shear dumb luck, or right place right time. I was snubbed 6 times by my "dream" carrier. Even so far as watching those damned 2 year people taking "my job" who had no right to it. It's probably this attitude that made my journey to a major a marathon instead of a sprint.

Sheer damn luck being the operative phrase.....

Once I got over myself and realized that said carrier wanted nothing to do with me I got hired by a different major carrier very quickly. In really I think I hit the jackpot where I am now and that dream carrier, had it panned out, I wouldn't be sitting nearly as pretty.

You didn't have to "get over yourself"......You were just fine as you were.....The other major hired you !

Do I regret my time at the regionals? No. I got to experience a lot of different parts of the operation that made me a stronger dispatcher. I got to give competency checks. I even got to try my hand at instructing part 65. Was it frustrating as hell watching people with less experience move on? You betcha. However, they earned it and good for them. It's funny how life works out, but it does!
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And that time and experience is what got you hired at the other major !
 
manniax said:
So, wait 10 years, and then start applying at the majors? That is, seriously, some of the worst career advice for new dispatchers that I have ever heard. Sure, you might not get hired after 2 years, but then again...you might! Way back when I was at my first regional one guy I worked with applied at a major and got hired after just under a year there. I guess that was a big mistake on his part, he should have given up 9 years of a better income so he could learn more about the airline industry first.

It is true that not everyone will get hired by the first major they apply to...or the first time they apply at one...but the risk vs. reward in applying vs. not applying is huge. At most it takes a few hours to fill out an online application, and most take much less time than that. And the potential reward...to quote Mastercard....priceless.

If you find a regional you like and decide you want to make a career there, that is fine also. I have several friends who have done so and are still happy living in SGU, ATW, or wherever. But if you do want to "move up" just remember that when it comes to applying for jobs....if you don't ask, the answer is ALWAYS no.
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Bad advice ? Hardly.

I keep hearing all the anecdotes about how many inexperienced folks get hired at the majors.

Yet that is all they are.....anecdotes that statistically rate up there with freak occurrences.

Metrics please.......EXACTLY how many inexperienced hired out of HOW MANY people attempting......Math, statistics.....Not Dale Carnegie feel good phrases....

I did personally know ONE guy who made it to the majors with only two years experience......on the other hand he had extraordinary credentials......

But I have PERSONALLY known over 250 dispatchers who tried and failed to make the Legacies......Those are real numbers folks ! Actually, it is more.....I just stopped counting when it hit 250......LOL
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Ratio 1:250.......Yeah attitude, that's it.....Yeah
 
LTDXER said:
Interesting.....attitude......measure that and quantify that for me.

In short, explain that as we would a P & O.......measurable and quantifiable

I find most people who look solely at "attitude" as the critical factor are really looking for........fellatio
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Well, if you're looking for examples, here's one here. Your attitude is not conducive to career enhancement. Or, if you need that boiled down a little more, your attitude stinks.

Your assertion that a dispatcher who starts work at a regional today won't hope to see the inside of a major airline SOC is factually deficient as evidenced by the hundreds of dispatchers presently working at majors who got here with less experience. Further, your assumption that the Majors is some unattainable unicorn for the rookie dispatcher to aspire to and your insistence that that aspiration is a waste of time does your fellow dispatchers a gross disservice.

I don't know you so I'm afraid I cannot speak to your reasons for your stance in this matter, but on the surface you're words and connotations smack of someone who has tried and have met with significant resistance in your own journey to the majors. All I'm trying to point out, in a way that is least subjective but still poignant, is that your particular issue is more internal yet you're attempting to pass it off as an external reality.
 
pljenkins said:
Well, if you're looking for examples, here's one here. Your attitude is not conducive to career enhancement. Or, if you need that boiled down a little more, your attitude stinks.

Judgmental without knowing any of the facts......You don't know me......And you don't know my attitudes or opinions in any significant degree....

Stop attacking me......Start attacking what I say with a reasoned argument

Your assertion that a dispatcher who starts work at a regional today won't hope to see the inside of a major airline SOC is factually deficient as evidenced by the hundreds of dispatchers presently working at majors who got here with less experience. Further, your assumption that the Majors is some unattainable unicorn for the rookie dispatcher to aspire to and your insistence that that aspiration is a waste of time does your fellow dispatchers a gross disservice.

Again......You are putting words in my mouth.....Address what I actually wrote

I don't know you so I'm afraid I cannot speak to your reasons for your stance in this matter, but on the surface you're words and connotations smack of someone who has tried and have met with significant resistance in your own journey to the majors. All I'm trying to point out, in a way that is least subjective but still poignant, is that your particular issue is more internal yet you're attempting to pass it off as an external reality.
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Here's is a tidbit.....I have been active in aviation for over four decades.....I've seen the ebbs and flows.....

Do not personally attack me ever again.
 
LTDXER said:
Bad advice ? Hardly.

I keep hearing all the anecdotes about how many inexperienced folks get hired at the majors.

Yet that is all they are.....anecdotes that statistically rate up there with freak occurrences.

Metrics please.......EXACTLY how many inexperienced hired out of HOW MANY people attempting......Math, statistics.....Not Dale Carnegie feel good phrases....

I did personally know ONE guy who made it to the majors with only two years experience......on the other hand he had extraordinary credentials......

But I have PERSONALLY known over 250 dispatchers who tried and failed to make the Legacies......Those are real numbers folks ! Actually, it is more.....I just stopped counting when it hit 250......LOL
.
Ratio 1:250.......Yeah attitude, that's it.....Yeah
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I know 20 people at least in the past three years that have been hired at the majors with two years of experience or less in dispatch. AA alone has hired at least 15 the past two years with two years or less in dispatch. A half dozen have had no dispatch experience at all. I know of three hired by UAL with less than a year dispatch experience back in early 2012. I know in the past six months, WN and US have hired dispatchers with 2 years or less experience.

The only statistic I have on how many applying versus getting hired is that out of the all the Eagle dispatchers that applied last year to AA with two years or less experience, 6 out of 9 were hired and one of the three not hired quickly got hired by US a month later.

Eagle had a new hire class in December 2012. From that new hire class, 5 of 6 were at the majors by January 2014. All five had two years or less experience in dispatch.

It all depends on the regional you work for. Skywest, GoJet, Pinnacle, Eagle all have sent several dispatchers to the majors in the past 3 years with two years or less experience in dispatch. Your regional may not have the same level of success. It does go to show that whatever regional you choose can have a great impact on when you get hired at a major.

If you expand it out more and include 5 years or less experience, you have an even greater number hired by the majors.

You want new dispatchers to wait three years to become a coordinator? That is the definition of bad advice. Coordinating is one of the quickest routes to the majors. Most regional airlines tend to offer dispatchers coordinator spots between 6 months to 1.5 years after hire. Some even less than that. You want dispatchers to waste three years of their life at bad money just to learn the operation better and voluntarily turn down opportunities to move up in those three years? What a load of crap. The dispatchers that take the initiative to advance quickly tend to get to the majors quickly. Apply to majors after ten years? Even worse advice. The nearly two dozen dispatchers hired by AA the past three years with two years or less in dispatch can attest to that. If those dispatchers followed your advice, they would not be at a major now.
 
LTDXER said:
Here's a thought.......Maybe you underrate experience because you don't have much experience ?
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It's an argument that can be made, but just because one makes the argument doesn't mean it's a good argument. It just means it's an argument. Perhaps that person is just argumentative?

I have had varying degrees of success in my 17 year career in commercial aviation with recruiting and developing talent, including being recognized for that success and training others to imitate it. I do recognize that there is no one way to do everything. I can only speak to my successes and the tools and processes I used to achieve that success. Personally, I'd rather have someone off the street with a great attitude and intelligence but zero aviation knowledge than someone with decades of experience and a poor attitude. I really enjoy coming to work and would like to continue that aspect of working, so working with positive people who I can train is more important to me. Having worked closely with recruiters over the years, I know that's the overwhelming belief with them as well.

I can teach someone the job. I can't teach someone to have a positive attitude.
 
Flagship_dxer said:
You want new dispatchers to wait three years to become a coordinator? That is the definition of bad advice. Coordinating is one of the quickest routes to the majors. Most regional airlines tend to offer dispatchers coordinator spots between 6 months to 1.5 years after hire. Some even less than that. You want dispatchers to waste three years of their life at bad money just to learn the operation better and voluntarily turn down opportunities to move up in those three years? What a load of crap. The dispatchers that take the initiative to advance quickly tend to get to the majors quickly. Apply to majors after ten years? Even worse advice. The nearly two dozen dispatchers hired by AA the past three years with two years or less in dispatch can attest to that. If those dispatchers followed your advice, they would not be at a major now.
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I agree completely. And while I had quite a bit more than two years of dispatch experience when I got to a major, I think that I could have gotten to one sooner had I started applying at them sooner. Of course, 9/11 didn't speed the process up any - but I still made it eventually...

I think one of the biggest myths that new dispatchers hear is "major airlines hardly ever do any hiring" and also "major airlines always hire from within." While it's true that someone with no dispatch experience won't get hired off the street into a dispatch job, it never hurts to apply for jobs either. I knew one person who got hired as a load planner with ZERO airline experience, and then got hired internally to be a dispatcher less than a year later. I also know people that have gotten hired by majors with ten or fifteen years of experience at various carriers.

As with all things - your mileage may vary - but I stand by my assertion that waiting to apply for a major job until you've been at a regional for ten years is extremely bad career advice.
 
LTDXER said:
Here's is a tidbit.....I have been active in aviation for over four decades.....I've seen the ebbs and flows.....

Do not personally attack me ever again.
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I'm afraid you've misconstrued behavioral observations for personal attacks. Attempting to correct this misconception I suspect will be a waste of time and seeing as there can be no hope of a constructive debate between the two of us, I shall bid you good day, sir.
 
Not to throw myself into the fire here but we get alot of newbies and prospective dispatchers on this board and I feel it's important that they don't get discouraged by this thread.

I personally managed to get on with a Major, the one I had targeted from the time I was in Dispatch school, after less than a year of dispatching at regionals. Licensed in August 2011, first job in November 2011 second regional April 2012, started at the Major Nov. 2012. I have no misconceptions about how fortunate and lucky I was, but the fact is that it happened. I personally know several people who have been hired at a Major with no experience and many more who were hired with a year or two. I also know a few who are still at regionals and in a few cases I suspect they will spend the rest of their career at those places and not from a lack of trying.

This isn't a one-size fits-all industry, anything is possible if you are in the right place at the right time and you know the right people.
 
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