New ATP Rule Question

goldennixter

goldennixter

Well-Known Member
Hello JC,

I was talking with a DPE yesterday about the new ATP rule stuff we've all heard so much about. The DPE said one had to finish the whole ATP test (written and practical) before July 30th to not have to do the CTP (the 30 new ATP training program with 30 hours of ground and level C/D sim time etc), but I told him I have read otherwise (as far as I understand if you take the old written you're good til it expires in 24 months to take the old test). I've been looking in the FARs about it and everything is written pretty vaguely from what I can understand. Can someone point me in the right direction where there is something concretely written about taking the traditional written and it being good for 24 months to take the traditional ATP practical? I feel like if one DPE is misinformed odds are that others are too and I would hope that they don't screw people over by not knowing the regs because they're a tad vague.

Thanks
 
As far as I can understand, the main thing that is changing is the written-one will have to do the CTP in order to be able to take the written, so just as long as you take the old written in time, you'll be able to take the practical before it expires without doing the ground/sim;however, I too would like to hear from someone with more knowlege on the matter.
 
Wow. That would royally screw over a lot of people including myself. I plan to take the ATP written this May, and I'll be at a 121 carrier most likely by the end of this year. It would be awful if that written didn't mean a thing after July 2014... I feel the same as you guys. I want to know what the real deal is.
 
from the horses mouth A.K.A FAA
(2) All pilots seeking an ATP certificate with a multiengine class rating will be required to complete the ATP CTP prior to taking the knowledge test beginning August 1, 2014. This training includes academic and flight simulation training device (FSTD) training.
 
61.155(d)

(d) An applicant who successfully completes the knowledge test for an airline transport pilot certificate prior to August 1, 2014, must successfully complete the practical test within 24 months from the month in which the knowledge test was successfully completed. An applicant who passes the knowledge test prior to August 1, 2014, but fails to successfully complete the practical test within 24 months must complete the airline transport pilot certification training program specified in §61.156 and retake the knowledge test prior to applying for the practical test.
 
Seriously, nobody knows WTF is going on with this new reg. Even the FSDOs don't have this stuff in black and white...what the hell congress?

Ok, as far as I know..A candidate going for an ATP knowledge or practical AFTER July 31, 2014 MUST have the 30 hours...etc.

Take the written before then so you avoid doing all those BS reqs. and then within 24 months after your test, get hired somewhere, have them pay for your ATP and that way you'll get all those little requirements because who the heck can afford the ground, 10 hours in a Level C or better sim (40,000lbs. or more) and 6 hours of CRM?
 
Thanks for the info guys, much appreciated.

Is the best way to get the restricted ATP for those of us under 23 to have a regional get that taken care of or is it better just to wait til 23 and get full ATP? Can you even get a restricted ATP without a part 121 type rating restricting you to FO and certain approach minima etc.? Pardon the questions, figure there are enough people going through this right now it wouldn't hurt to put the info out there.

Thanks!
 
goldennixter said:
Thanks for the info guys, much appreciated.

Is the best way to get the restricted ATP for those of us under 23 to have a regional get that taken care of or is it better just to wait til 23 and get full ATP? Can you even get a restricted ATP without a part 121 type rating restricting you to FO and certain approach minima etc.? Pardon the questions, figure there are enough people going through this right now it wouldn't hurt to put the info out there.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Refer to page 9 for the table.
http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/rulemaking/recently_published/media/2120-aj67.pdf

Yes, make the regionals or any other company pay for your ATP. You shouldn't have to fund it IMHO.
 
I think the regs are very clear about not requiring the CTP if the written was taken before July 31.

61.39(d)(1)
If the applicant passed the knowledge test after July 31, 2014, present the graduation
certificate for the airline transport pilot certification training program in §61.156, at the time of
application for the practical test
Click to expand...

So my understanding is that the list of prerequisites for a practical test does not contain the CTP completion certificate unless the written was taken after July 31st. 50 hours requirement in category and class still applies.
 
Friend of mine who just got on at Republic confirmed that the written may be completed prior to Aug 2014, without having to meet the new ground and sim requirements.
 
Can someone clearify the bit about 50 hours time in type? I've got type ratings already. I don't want another type rating...I want to go to some small flight school, fly friday & saturday and then check on sunday (Maybe 15 hours at the most). 50 hours time in type seems like a requirement needed to get the actual Type Rating. Is that right, or after 31 July am I going to need to fly 50 hours and pay for another type rating to get this ATP checkride done?

Just looking to knock this ATP out...
 
C130JGUY said:
Can someone clearify the bit about 50 hours time in type? I've got type ratings already. I don't want another type rating...I want to go to some small flight school, fly friday & saturday and then check on sunday (Maybe 15 hours at the most). 50 hours time in type seems like a requirement needed to get the actual Type Rating. Is that right, or after 31 July am I going to need to fly 50 hours and pay for another type rating to get this ATP checkride done?

Just looking to knock this ATP out...
Click to expand...
50 hrs in cat & class
 
That's some bull. Dang.

50 hours in a small whatever type just for the ATP checkride to count after 31 July 2014. That seems like wasted time unless you put it towards a type rating. Anyone know a good school?

Typed already in the BE400 and the C-130J
 
So what happens if someone decides not to take the knowledge test before 1 August, 2014? Will ATP applicants have to pay for the new training requirements?
 
C130JGUY said:
That's some bull. Dang.

50 hours in a small whatever type just for the ATP checkride to count after 31 July 2014. That seems like wasted time unless you put it towards a type rating. Anyone know a good school?

Typed already in the BE400 and the C-130J
Click to expand...

Not 50 hours in a type. Just 50 hours in cat/class. I.E you need 50 hours of multi time to get an ATP. That rule is in place now.

Cloud Surfer said:
So what happens if someone decides not to take the knowledge test before 1 August, 2014? Will ATP applicants have to pay for the new training requirements?
Click to expand...
I highly doubt it.
 
Here's what kills me about the new rule. Single engine ATP. I hold a single and am going for my multi ATP, however my understanding of the reg is that people who hold no ATP, but have a written, are in a better position than me, which is complete bs.

My understanding is that if you want to add on a multi after July 31 but already hold a single ATP, you still need the full class. Since I already hold an ATP certificate I can't (and won't) just take another ATP written test, which would allow me a full 24 months to take my ride, however without the written, I'm now left with just a few more months to get my multi before the new reg starts. Its as if the feds and congress completely overlooked the fact that those of us who already hold and ATP but want an add on, have already completed and submitted a written test to the FAA.

It makes zero sense, and I've joked that I should just surrender my single ATP so I can take the test again, and I'll get 24 months to get my multi.
 
What appears to be confusing to me is that right now if you wanted an ATP with AMEL, you are required to take a specific multi-engine ATP written test. Looking at the Lasergrade, CATS and FAA websites, they still offer just the 135 and 121 tests. So how do you take the special multi-engine test?
 
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