Malaysia Airlines 777 missing

Shane Wiliams said:
To All,
Excuse me I'm not suppose to have an opinion?
Is MikeD a God that he cannot be challenged? It i attitude like these that leads to incidents or accidents because junior staff cannot posit a recommendation to senior staff. I thought that thinking was archaic in aviation but apparently it isn't.
This is the information that we are leaving in, where everything is available at fingers' tips Boston bombers were identified after their photos were placed in the media in less than 24 hours, no one can tell me that the Malaysian Authority hasn't been delinquent; I don't care who di guy.
They stated that the two suspects were of African descent initial only to find out that was farthest from the case, nothing has been consistent thus far.
One could understand with AFR 447 it was remote and out of coverage but this juss asinine.

@MikeD no disrespect meant
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Problem is you come out swinging and no one knows who you are. I've never walked into someone's living room without introducing myself cordially first.
 
Shane Wiliams said:
To All,
Excuse me I'm not suppose to have an opinion?
Is MikeD a God that he cannot be challenged? It i attitude like these that leads to incidents or accidents because junior staff cannot posit a recommendation to senior staff. I thought that thinking was archaic in aviation but apparently it isn't.
This is the information that we are leaving in, where everything is available at fingers' tips Boston bombers were identified after their photos were placed in the media in less than 24 hours, no one can tell me that the Malaysian Authority hasn't been delinquent; I don't care who di guy.
They stated that the two suspects were of African descent initial only to find out that was farthest from the case, nothing has been consistent thus far.
One could understand with AFR 447 it was remote and out of coverage but this juss asinine.

@MikeD no disrespect meant
Click to expand...

I'm trying to understand you...
 
fholbert said:
Having trouble with this theory...

If they turned off the transponder and ATC lost RADAR contact. Later a primary return flew back across land how do they know it's the aircraft in question?

Without a secondary return how did they know the primary return was at 10,000?

Why for three days did they say the aircraft MAY have turned around. Either it did or didn't.
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PSR with mode C eadout gives altitude
 
Shane Wiliams said:
Is MikeD a God that he cannot be challenged?...

This is the information that we are leaving in, where everything is available at fingers' tips Boston bombers were identified after their photos were placed in the media in less than 24 hours, no one can tell me that the Malaysian Authority hasn't been delinquent; I don't care who di guy.
Click to expand...

Well, MikeD can string together a coherent paragraph. I'm not sure that rates him as a divinity, but it does seem to be an increasingly rare power.
 
fholbert said:
Don't think you're understanding... What's DME have to do with it?
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If they had SSR they would know the dme and altitude from a known point example a VOR, after the aircraft transponder is off they could track it position using PSR by using its radial and DME from the known point until it is out of range
 
Shane Wiliams said:
To All,
Excuse me I'm not suppose to have an opinion?
Is MikeD a God that he cannot be challenged? It i attitude like these that leads to incidents or accidents because junior staff cannot posit a recommendation to senior staff. I thought that thinking was archaic in aviation but apparently it isn't.
This is the information that we are leaving in, where everything is available at fingers' tips Boston bombers were identified after their photos were placed in the media in less than 24 hours, no one can tell me that the Malaysian Authority hasn't been delinquent; I don't care who di guy.
They stated that the two suspects were of African descent initial only to find out that was farthest from the case, nothing has been consistent thus far.
One could understand with AFR 447 it was remote and out of coverage but this juss asinine.
Click to expand...

Your points would come across better with proper English, grammar, spelling and punctuation.
 
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fholbert said:
Didn't have that in my ATC days. Thanks.

As I understand it they lost RADAR with the 777. An hour or more later (depending on the report) a primary return was picked up heading the other way. What makes them think this was the 777?
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This is a completely valid point

But given the time of day, altitude and speed, it's highly unlikely for it to be anything else
 
Shane Wiliams said:
To All,
Excuse me I'm not suppose to have an opinion?
Is MikeD a God that he cannot be challenged? It i attitude like these that leads to incidents or accidents because junior staff cannot posit a recommendation to senior staff. I thought that thinking was archaic in aviation but apparently it isn't.
This is the information that we are leaving in, where everything is available at fingers' tips Boston bombers were identified after their photos were placed in the media in less than 24 hours, no one can tell me that the Malaysian Authority hasn't been delinquent; I don't care who di guy.
They stated that the two suspects were of African descent initial only to find out that was farthest from the case, nothing has been consistent thus far.
One could understand with AFR 447 it was remote and out of coverage but this juss asinine.

@MikeD no disrespect meant
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I am assuming that English is not your primary language. If it is, perhaps that is an issue for you to work on. I have no idea what "the information age" has to do with what you just wrote. How many catastrophic accidents/incidents have you followed from the beginning of their occurrence? How many initial reports of every such event are often corrected and adjusted as more time, investigation, information and evidence is discovered/gathered?

There is a difference between questioning/not agreeing with someone - depending on what they have stated, the tone and meaning- and being a rude ass, especially considering that you just joined this forum. Hopefully, you will learn the difference. Mike stated nothing to garner your response.

The authorities never considered the two men to be real "suspects" either. They were only investigated because of the passport issue which has turned out thus far to be nothing. They were simply trying to immigrate to another country. Illegal immigration happens around the world on a huge scale. One was just a kid who was going to German to reunite his Mother. This is very common in most parts of the world, even here in the US.

No one knows exactly what happened to this flight. Not you, not me and apparently not even those who are still searching for her. If that bothers you, it bothers the families and loved ones of the crew and pax far more deeply. There are never instant answers in a case such as this. Some investigations will proceed more swiftly than others depending on the circumstances. This is not going to be the case here. There were no communications form this aircraft. As I have stated before, the flight course changed for whatever reason but, there is nothing concrete and specific to direct the SARs operations as to where exactly it continued, let alone where it came down. It's a huge area to search for something so small. Hell, India has now become involved in the search currently.

Your statements concerning radar and tracking are way off as well, especially in this case and I see that you just deleted that post. As is being stated currently by the military, it is only "possible" that they might have seen/captured the plane and that unknown returns found when reviewing radar data at a later date/time suggested that the plane had turned.It was not their responsibility to be concerned with or follow the event at the time. The spokesman also has stated that the coverage in that area is indeed intermittent and needs further analysis/examination.

I would also suggest that a change in your attitude at this point would be appreciated.

As I have inquired before, what exactly is your background in such matters and in professional aviation?
 
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Shane Wiliams said:
Thinking the same thing? it is not difficult to track a primary target dme from known point altitude etc
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Do you understand that showing up on somebody's primary is almost meaningless if the operator has no responsibility to track, communicate, or record the event?

Even where an area of responsibility is clearly defined, the primary responsibility is to maintain separation. Outside the US and Europe, there are many areas where they don't care who you are or where you're going until it's time to land unless it's a separation issue.

If you've spent some time tracking targets in a military or civilian setting you would understand that "I wonder who that is" is a common question that often goes unanswered if there is no compelling reason to identify.
 
Shane Wiliams said:
Let us all focus on the issue and not on side issues
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That's not what you just wrote. But you deleted the post.

How many flight hours do you have? PIC/SIC? Aircraft? How much experience do you have in SAR, company SMS, etc.?

It would be nice to gauge your experience level so that we can understand your commentary better.
 
Shane Wiliams said:
Let us all focus on the issue and not on side issues
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I take it that this means you are not a pilot and have no background in aviation whatsoever unless you care to explain otherwise. There are members here at all levels, even those just starting out and that's great. Everyone begins somewhere and that is part of what this site is about. But an introduction would be appreciated.
 
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Shane Wiliams said:
If they had SSR they would know the dme and altitude from a known point example a VOR, after the aircraft transponder is off they could track it position using PSR by using its radial and DME from the known point until it is out of range
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Actually, it's a lot harder than you think. The difference systems all process primary (RADAR) returns and secondary (IFF) differently. Some systems still in use today don't even have an ability to record.

I can give you examples from the different USAF surveillance platforms I crewed, USMC, USN, and many NATO systems I was lucky enough to use during exchange TDYs, and a handful of civilian systems I operated in Europe and Africa doing some very specific missions.

Tracking a known target in an automated environment is one thing. Detecting and tracking an unknown target is something else, identifying that unknown target is another thing altogether.

Depending on the rules in place, once IFF is lost, having a known ID of what a target used to be is no longer valid and, while educated guesses can be had, maneuvering of the target and/or loss of RADAR on the target may not even allow you to make that educated guess anymore.

Also, not to be picky, but how you are using specific terms doesn't really jive with how those terms/systems were used in the 14 or so years I did that.
 
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