Jumpseating

9E dispatcher said:
Heck crews say it is a FAR that there must be hold fuel only had this issue when we got tha 900's and other than original pinnacle crews want hold

ck
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Hu? Your JC'ing drunk or something.

I want some hold fuel, not 45 min of hold fuel with 3SM and OVC018. Can't speak for everyone on 900 but 10 min of hold was common for XJ no matter what. Of course the XJ dispatch core only had 70 plus years of experience and I know the Pinnacle guys I dealt with had a median of 6months on the job. There's gonna be some differences in how Endeavor dispatch does it vs XJ, but the XJ guys got trained by guys like Bob to expect a certain methodology and its tough to accept change even years later. especially when you are gone next year and the next crew does something completely different.
 
Hecklers2002 said:
Can't believe you guys are throwing JV under the bus LOL. My favorite JV quote "All my years of dispatching I've never seen a thunderstorm come up from behind and swallow a plane" LMAO! Gotta love JV
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My favorite quote from JV was "I will tellyou where the storms are you just go." JV was a part of the Colgan cowboy philosophy and then wrung their hands later because their prized Q had 8 strikes on it in 6 months. Push pilots to fly into storms because he thinks he knows everything, ask JV how many pilots at Colgan wouldnt run him over if given the chance, a fact he's proud of. Not a teamate I want, thats for sure.
 
bronco21016 said:
I'm curious what reasons the dispatcher would want to "protect" any extra gas....
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121.647 states:
Each person computing fuel required shall consider the following:
(a) Wind and other weather conditions forecast.
(b) Anticipated traffic delays.
(c) One instrument approach and possible missed approach at destination.
(d) Any other conditions that may delay landing of the aircraft.

For me, by putting fuel in hold/contingency I have complied with the requirements by the FARs by putting something above the protected "min fuel" line so to speak.

I routinely split the total amount of fuel I plan between the cont/hold and extra line though. If lets say I want 25 mins total endurance, I will put 10 in cont to comply with the FAR and 15 in extra. Once airborne if you need it, then adjustment can be made enroute
 
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To the OP, you'll be surprised how rarely a typical line pilot sees dispatchers on his jumpseat, so not surprising they occasionally get wrapped around the prop when one shows up. What IS unacceptable is for a crew to kick you off simply because they can't be bothered to make a quick call to dispatch. If I showed up at push time then I can see why the skipper might not have the time to deal with me and I would waste no time getting out of his hair.
 
bronco21016 said:
I'm curious what reasons the dispatcher would want to "protect" any extra gas....
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There are a few, but not many pilots who will not take any extra fuel that you give them. I think that's great, especially on those days that are VFR and no enroute constraints, there's nothing wrong with it, but when they aren't if is.

I'm one for putting most of the fuel in the extra rather than add and just noting the release as to why I put it there, seems to save a lot of phone calls and questions.
 
Rogo said:
There are a few, but not many pilots who will not take any extra fuel that you give them. I think that's great, especially on those days that are VFR and no enroute constraints, there's nothing wrong with it, but when they aren't if is.

I'm one for putting most of the fuel in the extra rather than add and just noting the release as to why I put it there, seems to save a lot of phone calls and questions.
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The notes are the best approach. There's nothing more frustrating than finding out your dispatcher inexplicably gave you tons of hold fuel on VFR day and you have to leave 3 commuters behind. Always helps to let us know what you're thinking/planning/forseeing.
 
bronco21016 said:
The notes are the best approach. There's nothing more frustrating than finding out your dispatcher inexplicably gave you tons of hold fuel on VFR day and you have to leave 3 commuters behind. Always helps to let us know what you're thinking/planning/forseeing.
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Yeah from my experience it's the few guys that DON'T read the notes about extra fuel and burn it all up before take-off that has resulted in some dispatchers putting that extra gas in HOLD fuel on a non vfr day to "protect" it from being burnt on the ground. It's hard to tell the guy who reads the notes from the guy who doesn't. So for CYA purposes this is what happens.
 
777Boner said:
121.647 states:
Each person computing fuel required shall consider the following:
(a) Wind and other weather conditions forecast.
(b) Anticipated traffic delays.
(c) One instrument approach and possible missed approach at destination.
(d) Any other conditions that may delay landing of the aircraft.

For me, by putting fuel in hold/contingency I have complied with the requirements by the FARs by putting something above the protected "min fuel" line so to speak.

I routinely split the total amount of fuel I plan between the cont/hold and extra line though. If lets say I want 25 mins total endurance, I will put 10 in cont to comply with the FAR and 15 in extra. Once airborne if you need it, then adjustment can be made enroute
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At my current shop we have a "CONT" line which hits the MFR fuel line, but is used to satisfy the requirements of 121.647. The whole purpose of contingency fuel is to protect the :45 of reserve (domestic) and 10% (flag/supp). Additionally whenever we add fuel, we are required to annotate why we are adding that fuel. Release remarks are the best way to convey the reasoning, or better yet, a phone call the the crew.
 
PlaneFan82 said:
Normally I just politely explain how we are in CASS and only require our FAA ticket, company ID, and passport---if it still seems like a dead end, I drop the issue, and will try and find another ride home.
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A passport isn't even required anymore... it depend's on if the respective carriers FOM still requires it for CASS verification. It certainly is not a set standard as it used to be.
 
Hecklers2002 said:
Can't believe you guys are throwing JV under the bus LOL. My favorite JV quote "All my years of dispatching I've never seen a thunderstorm come up from behind and swallow a plane" LMAO! Gotta love JV
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Haha. I can totally hear JV saying that. He spits out some great quotes lol. I miss working the AM shift with JV and all the other guys. Some good times there.
 
Ok... Got a random question. Since US doesn't have a JS agreement with ExpressJet, and American does - do we have to wait for SOC for the new AA to ride on a L-US plane?
 
Technically yes, but I have seen dispatchers without agreements but in CASS ride before. Usually means the captain didn''t check to see if they had an agreement.

I wouldn't advise that practice for ethical reasons.
 
I know it's quite random to think this, but we have some guys who JS to CLT/PHL a lot and sometimes US pilots look it up. ExpressJet is in CASS and allow their (US) pilots access to our JS, but it didn't reciprocate? I wondered this as I have a good friend on the 190 in PHL and was going to take a ride.
 
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