How much ground time should I be charged? (CFIs enter please)

I disagree with doing the brief/debrief in the airplane on the taxi out or taxi in. How are we supposed to emphasise stuff like runway incursion avoidance and the likes if we're taking their attention away from the airplane during taxi?
 
Here's my two cents worth. I have worked as a CFI for three years now for one of the most respected aviation programs in the country. I usually only charge my students .5 of pre/post-brief if we fly for and hour in a two hour time block, if they preflight by themselves. It also depends on the student. If the student isn't particularly punctual and it's a recurring problem that I've discussed with them before, I'll adjust my billing. I usually spend more time with the student than what I'm charging them (this is common for most scrupulous CFI's). Yes you'll run into the tool boxes that start the timer as soon as they step foot on airport grounds (I used to live with one of those). If they're available to you, and not eating or BSing, and/or working with you on something they have the right to bill you. On the flip side, as a student, let me encourage you to approach your CFI in a respectful manner and discus their billing practices with him/her. I tell my students that up front when I first meet them. I'm pretty easy going and I'm not going to get upset with you. Any good CFI can explain exactly why he/she is charging the way they're charging. Don't be the brat that goes to their boss and complains about it before being a responsible adult and talking to them first. I've had too many kids with mommy and daddy issues that have done that. With all that being said, if the CFI is willing to converse with you about their billing practices then you can make an educated decision as to whether or not that individual is best for you. There are bad CFI's out there, communication between you as the student and them as the "professional" is your best defense against them.

Good luck, PM me if you'd like to ask any questions. I'd be happy to answer what I can or give advice, for what it's worth.
 
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mshunter said:
If you book an instructor for two hours, expect to pay for two hours.
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Sometimes the school does the booking for you, with mandatory 2 hour blocks. As a customer, I wouldn't want to pay for my CFI to be sitting on the couch drinking diet coke while I am doing the preflight.
 
mojo6911 said:
Sometimes the school does the booking for you, with mandatory 2 hour blocks. As a customer, I wouldn't want to pay for my CFI to be sitting on the couch drinking diet coke while I am doing the preflight.
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I've honestly never understood this attitude. You booked an instructor for two hours. That's two hours they should get paid. A preflight is part of the deal. That 15 minutes you spent preflighting, going to the bathroom, etc., is time that you blocked off of their schedule. They couldn't do anything else to make money. Say you have 4 students a day, and they each take 30 minutes to preflight the airplane. That's two hours of time the instructor just missed out on making.

Edit to add: if the instructor is sitting there on the couch while you preflight, find another damn instructor.
 
mshunter said:
Edit to add: if the instructor is sitting there on the couch while you preflight, find another damn instructor.
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Disagree. After the first 5 or 6 lessons, student should know how to preflight themselves. As I said earlier, when I was instructing, I subtracted 0.3 (or more, depending on wx/mx/line delays out of student control) from block time to give the student a reasonable amount of time to preflight.
 
gotWXdagain said:
Disagree. After the first 5 or 6 lessons, student should know how to preflight themselves. As I said earlier, when I was instructing, I subtracted 0.3 (or more, depending on wx/mx/line delays out of student control) from block time to give the student a reasonable amount of time to preflight.
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Trust be verify. ESPECIALLY when it's your certificate on the line with a student.

Edit to add: You short changed yourself. It took a lot of time, money and hard work to earn my certificates.

Edit edit to add: I hope I never hear you getting down on pilot salaries being low.
 
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mshunter said:
Trust be verify. ESPECIALLY when it's your certificate on the line with a student.

Edit to add: You short changed yourself. It took a lot of time, money and hard work to earn my certificates.

Edit edit to add: I hope I never hear you getting down on pilot salaries being low.
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Point 1: Yes, of course trust but verify

Point 2: If I'd wanted, I could have arranged my schedule so that the student preflights before I show up to the airport

Point 3: Won't be an issue, I spent more time than most CFI-ing and was able to completely skip the regional noise and moved right into an industry sector that doesn't treat their pilots as completely expendable (and compensates accordingly).
 
Ya know, I think I'll chime in. So far I can say that I agree and disagree with what has been said.

However,

I once had an instructor who would pat me on the back after the flight, walk out the door whilst saying, "see ya on Thursday." and then charge .5 for a post flight brief, Uhhmmm, Yeah, HOMIE DON'T PLAY THAT!!! He lasted 3 or 4 flights, ohh and he was a crappy CFI. Also, I was forced to fly at a particular FBO for college credit for my instrument rating, these people were known for overcharging and boy oh boy did they. Maybe 1.2 or 1.3 ground would always be 2 hours of billing. I was red faced mad about it a couple times, not to mention that my instructor took me for a SEVEN hour jont all over hells half acre for my long IFR XC. Later I heard that he wanted XC time to meet IFR 135 mins. Just the other day, (now that I'm a CFI) I learned that another CFI picked up a flight with one of my instrument students, and guess what, took him for a 3 hour XC when they were supposed to be in the practice area doing BAI. It's really a shame that some CFI's tailor their logbook to a students flight lesson, doesn't help the reputation of the industry, or that particular individual.

When I was freelancing, I wouldn't hound the clock, I recall many time spending 1.1 or 1.2 hours ground with a student and only charging 1 hour.


Unless you are there with the student giving (ADEQUATE INSTRUCTION)








wait for it











wait for it










DON'T BE CHARGING A DAMN THING





whilst you drink a cola or drop a deuce!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ONE!!!!!! x three
 
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