CEEME2

[BobDDuck]

Update on the CEEME: SoCal hated it so much they killed "descend via." Center will not be issuing it for the foreseeable future. Expect PIRUE at 110.

I'm sure it will be back. If I recall the initial east coast descend via arrivals lasted about a month and then died because everybody hated them. They reappeared (slightly improved, but not much) about a year later.

 

[amorris311]

I'm sure it will be back. If I recall the initial east coast descend via arrivals lasted about a month and then died because everybody hated them. They reappeared (slightly improved, but not much) about a year later.

The latest decend via's I've done have been coming from the NW into PHL and the S going into LGA. The others are more fixes with alt constraints.

 

[BobDDuck]

The latest decend via's I've done have been coming from the NW into PHL and the S going into LGA. The others are more fixes with alt constraints.

The worst were the redone DCA arrivals, at least in a plane with no VNAV and autothrottles. They would have been a nonevent with the PROF setup I'm using now though, so I guess it's all relative.

 

[amorris311]

The worst were the redone DCA arrivals, at least in a plane with no VNAV and autothrottles. They would have been a nonevent with the PROF setup I'm using now though, so I guess it's all relative.

Yea I'm sure you're right. I haven't been to DCA in years so I don't have anything current. It's nice when everything/everyone is capable of doing the vnav. When one flight screws it up everyone seems to get thrown for a loop.

 

[fish314]

We don't have them out here (although we just got a memo about it so maybe they are starting up) but I flew a bunch of them before leaving the east coast last year. They work ok IF they are programed correctly and IF your aircraft has good VNAV and auto throttles. In the CRJ without either of those things they are an incident waiting to happen. The benefit I did see for them was reduced radio clutter. In the past when descending into someplace like DCA you'd get about 5 different altitude assignments on the way down. With a descend via clearance, there was only one. Multiply that times X airplanes per hour and it results in a lot less talking. The fuel burn issue is also true IF the procedure was designed for you. A RJ doesn't do a throttle idle decent that same way an Airbus or 757 does. A way of fixing that problem is giving windows on the arrival so most fixes "CROSS XXXXX BETWEEN FLXXX and FLXXX".

Also, a controller telling you what transition a fix is on if getting cleared somewhere farther down the line on a different transition is VERY helpful. Most FMS boxes load an arrival by "Arrival Name" and then "Transition". If you are cleared direct a fix three in from the initial transition fix the only way to do that is to load the transition (which is unknown if the controller doesn't tell you or until you find the fix they want you to go to on the chart and then backtrack up the arrival until you get to the transition).

Finally... You think descend via is bad... wait until we start the climb via clearances.

Thanks BobDDuck. I know what you mean about it being a pain to load... Both the last plane (KC-135) and the current plane (T-6) load them by the transition and there's no way to look up what points are on a transition until you load it. But I've never had a plane with VNAV or autothrottles so it's always been by hand for me (actually, current plane has no autopilot either)... but I'm picking' up what you're putting down.

 

[MikeD]

Thanks BobDDuck. I know what you mean about it being a pain to load... Both the last plane (KC-135) and the current plane (T-6) load them by the transition and there's no way to look up what points are on a transition until you load it. But I've never had a plane with VNAV or autothrottles so it's always been by hand for me (actually, current plane has no autopilot either)... but I'm picking' up what you're putting down.

Did you return to training command recently after a tour back in the -135? Or have you been in AETC for the past 5+ years or so?

 

[fish314]

Did you return to training command recently after a tour back in the -135? Or have you been in AETC for the past 5+ years or so?

Hey Mike. Just returning back to the T-6. Left the -135 in November, and still going through requal on the T-6 now. Should finish up requal next week and start flying with students again in about 3.