Southwest lands at wrong airport?

I_Money said:
Am I the only one who thinks these pilots shouldn't be fired? Everyday on every flight I'm sure a mistake is made - most are likely minor and never even realized, while others are more public like this one. In healthcare when we make mistakes people die, but we don't hang the person who made the mistake. If they have a long history of poor care, year maybe, if it was egregious then probably - but good employees can make mistakes but can then be a catalyst and spokesperson about the issue and help improve safety overall. I doubt these were horrendous pilots, probably did what 1000s of pilots did last night, they're just unlucky the cascade of events got them on the news! I certainly don't think it is worthy of having their career ended over -
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It's not my decision to fire the guys obviously, nor am I saying I am incapable of making the same mistake(s), but I would be expected to be fired for making an error like that and would have to accept responsibility for it. They were 100 feet or so from a potential disaster, especially with no ARFF resources at the airport. I'm not throwing stones or anything, but where would you draw the line? If they had gone off the hill at the end and people died would you say they should be fired? I see your healthcare reference, but what if you're talking about 100 times the amount of lives involved? Just trying to see everyone's perspectives on here. Thanks.
 
I was actually agreeing with you - sorry if it didn't come across. Approach in that case just assumed we were going to the major airport they are at, rather than the small one to the south. Another day, or with identical runway tracks, we might have dug ourselves a hole too.

I've done some pretty stupid things, especially at the end of long days, including one when flying SPIFR that really could have killed me.
 
jtrain609 said:
Just remember kids, nobody is superman, and it could be any of us next.
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Absolutely.

I was flying an MD-88 into one of the 'Burghs or 'Villes years ago and the captain wanted me to call the airport in sight.

It was dark and every other airport looked 'non descript' and we'd be entering a right downwind for the airport.

"Call it!"

I didn't have a warm-fuzzy about the airport as it seemed somewhat small, but the runway configuration is consistent with our destination.

I called the airport in sight after some soul searching and fortunately approach said something like "Naw, I'll turn ya base first, you want to go to the right airport" and it turned out that:

a. He was looking at the wrong airport.
b. I let myself get pressured into calling the airport in sight.
c. It's a common problem in that area

I've been there several times before in the last 30-ish years of flying, but at the end of the day, I can't see the point in calling an airport in sight at a significant distance, especially at the smaller airports where you're not really expediting the flow of traffic.

Besides, we're not on a mission to drop a bomb on a convoy where there's a 30 second window of opportunity in which success means World War III gets averted. Measure twice, cut once.
 
Derg said:
Absolutely.

I was flying an MD-88 into one of the 'Burghs or 'Villes years ago and the captain wanted me to call the airport in sight.

It was dark and every other airport looked 'non descript' and we'd be entering a right downwind for the airport.

"Call it!"

I didn't have a warm-fuzzy about the airport as it seemed somewhat small, but the runway configuration is consistent with our destination.

I called the airport in sight after some soul searching and fortunately approach said something like "Naw, I'll turn ya base first, you want to go to the right airport" and it turned out that:

a. He was looking at the wrong airport.
b. I let myself get pressured into calling the airport in sight.
c. It's a common problem in that area

I've been there several times before in the last 30-ish years of flying, but at the end of the day, I can't see the point in calling an airport in sight at a significant distance, especially at the smaller airports where you're not really expediting the flow of traffic.

Besides, we're not on a mission to drop a bomb on a convoy where there's a 30 second window of opportunity in which success means World War III gets averted. Measure twice, cut once.
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No matter where I'm at, no matter how sure I am of what I'm looking at, as soon as we're cleared for the visual, I have a bearing pointer up, and I put in direct to the marker and dial in the altitude for said marker.

The one time I didn't, I set up a sweet turn to final to a beacon on a heliport that was probably 5 miles past the airport. It put me on the localizer but really really high.

A quick 360 solved the problem, but it was embarrassing as hell.
 
Derg said:
Absolutely.

I was flying an MD-88 into one of the 'Burghs or 'Villes years ago and the captain wanted me to call the airport in sight.

It was dark and every other airport looked 'non descript' and we'd be entering a right downwind for the airport.

"Call it!"

I didn't have a warm-fuzzy about the airport as it seemed somewhat small, but the runway configuration is consistent with our destination
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It's only happened to me twice - one was the new Runway in Atlanta after the Captain had made some disparaging comments about "no one could line up with the wrong runway in Atlanta..." and the other was with a LCA at the beginning of the trip. In each case I pulled out my Home Improvement voice "I don't think so Tim." to diffuse it (wouldn't work for you...LOL).

I ate very well (free) for the remainder of each trip. :D
 
I accept that things can happen to anyone, but where is the accountability if you cant get fired for *almost* killing a hundred people? I concede that I don't know the first thing about flying a large jet, 121 at that, but what this big panel is supposed to do, make popcorn? And before someone says 'maybe it wasn't a modern glass 37 cockpit' I'm pretty sure they had a compass, eyes and a map. I am not trying to be unfair, but it is our job as pilots to GO AROUND at the very least.

Cockpit.jpg
 
If you can't get a 737 stopped in 4,000 you should be fired.

My RJ commonly only requires 2,500. Not that we'd land on a 2,500 foot long runway, but if you NEED TO, it'll stop.
 
jtrain609 said:
The one time I didn't, I set up a sweet turn to final to a beacon on a heliport that was probably 5 miles past the airport. It put me on the localizer but really really high.
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A radio beacon or the airport beacon light? Because a heliport should've been green/white/yellow if at night, or green/white/red if a hospital heliport.
 
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I guess I'd be more interested in a landing clearance than an approach. They are flying to a Delta airport with a tower, right? Then Approach (or Center, or whoever) flips 'em to tower. What did that conversation sound like? If they thought they were landing at a towered airport, apparently then, they also landed without a landing clearance. Hmm.
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It seems from an ATC perspective that many times pilots just want to call the field so we can clear them for the visual and they can just fly their plane how they see fit and take it from there instead of us kind of trying to set up the approach for them via vectors, etc. before they get it in sight.

Edited to add - someone mentioned calling it in sight whether it's 30mi vis or 300 RVR. There have been times where someone calls the field and I'm kind of thinking they're lying... But -- it's not me up there, shoot I don't even have windows in the tracon so who am I to say they don't see it? They call it, I clear 'em... I mean.... until it's obvious they might be too low or might not be going to the right place that I could say something, it's kind of on them? Right? Kind of?

Maybe, maybe not. I've been handed off to tower (and then cleared to land) 15+ miles away from the airport before. I'm sure at that point tower hasn't done more than maybe seen my landing lights in the distance. Also, I think the tower was already closed at that hour.
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Exactly. Usually how it works when it's slow at night.

Now, maybe the tower WAS closed, that would make the most sense. If it was open, maybe the controller cleared them to land, then went back to doing their crossword puzzle other administrative duties and didn't notice he wasn't getting close to his airport. Maybe Branson is a VFR tower only and doesn't have a BRITE. I didn't really do any research on what they have or not, I just hit reply and deposited my two cents lol..

I'm always last to the party when there's 8 pages of comments already. Ah well.
 
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AM011309 said:
It seems from an ATC perspective that many times pilots just want to call the field so we can clear them for the visual and they can just fly their plane how they see fit and take it from there instead of us kind of trying to set up the approach for them via vectors, etc.
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......but then turn around and squarely blame ATC when they screw up and land at the wrong field.
 
sweeps said:
It's not my decision to fire the guys obviously, nor am I saying I am incapable of making the same mistake(s), but I would be expected to be fired for making an error like that and would have to accept responsibility for it. They were 100 feet or so from a potential disaster, especially with no ARFF resources at the airport. I'm not throwing stones or anything, but where would you draw the line? If they had gone off the hill at the end and people died would you say they should be fired? I see your healthcare reference, but what if you're talking about 100 times the amount of lives involved? Just trying to see everyone's perspectives on here. Thanks.
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I would fully expect to be fired as well, but I think if I was on the other side of the table I'd think twice about it.

I'm a strong believer in second chances on stuff like this. Obviously if people were hurt, or an expensive amount of damage is done, its different.

But I'd look at the circumstances, look at the history of both pilots. If this is the first screw up of this magnitude I'd probably favor retraining. People screw up, it happens. But I guarantee you that those two will be more careful from now on. If they aren't, THEN throw the book at them.
 
MikeD said:
What final approach course is there for a visual approach? Or do you mean the runway the visual is going to? Because a course/heading may be 5 or more degrees off from the actual runway number. Visual approach isn't necessarily a course/heading.



What if there is no instrument approach to said runway?
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On the 430/530 you can turn any point into a navaid with the obs button. I'd imagine you can do a lot better than that with an FMS.
 
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