20 years ago this month

MikeD

MikeD

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The crash of the Westwind 1124 N309CK carrying the president, VP, and top executives of the In n Out burger chain, while on final approach to KSNA, following a wake turbulence encounter behind a UA 757. This accident was the last of many incidents that got the 757 to be required to be issued wake turbulence warnings for aircraft trailing it, even though it was below the weight requirement for a heavy classification at the time, and even with the revision.
 
Anyone know exactly where the impact was? I've lived in the area for a while and always wondered where it was.
 
sweeps said:
Anyone know exactly where the impact was? I've lived in the area for a while and always wondered where it was.
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55 Freeway (Costa Mesa Fwy) / Edinger, next to the auto mall, just northwest of MCAS Tustin. In what was then an open field. Not open at all anymore. Tustin MCAS ARFF units were one of the first on scene, along with OCFA fire units.
 
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MikeD said:
55 Freeway (Costa Mesa Fwy) / Edinger, next to the auto mall, just northwest of MCAS Tustin. In what was then an open field. Not open at all anymore. Tustin MCAS ARFF units were one of the first on scene, along with OCFA fire units.
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I didn't remember that it was that far from the field. Gad. I only remembered that it hit in an open lot.
 
MikeD said:
55 Freeway (Costa Mesa Fwy) / Edinger, next to the auto mall, just northwest of MCAS Tustin. In what was then an open field. Not open at all anymore. Tustin MCAS ARFF units were one of the first on scene, along with OCFA fire units.
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Thanks, I had always heard Edinger near the 55 but the auto mall narrows it down a lot. Wonder what building it is now. Not much open real estate around there except the old base.
 
I lived down the street from the crash site, in the following days after the crash I visited the site and some of the wreckage was still visible, I parked right in that little circle loop of auto-mall drive.. anyways the wreckage was right were the purple circle is on this picture. The plane would've been facing approximately parallel to the freeway facing towards the bottom of the screen.
 

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And yet with recat there is no more extra space or wake turbulence advisory required for a 757 when being followed by another large or above aircraft. It gets treated now the same as a 737 or A320 etc. (at least at airports operating under the Recat Wake Turbulence rules). And I don't think Europe ever provided extra spacing for the 757.
 
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Caught a bit of A330 wake at MSP on my first evah take off in a Citation Ultra. Only rolled 40° or so, but definitely not a fun place to be at with 600-700 feet of alt.
 
I will not accept a take off clearance directly behind a 757 with no separation. They can get pissy all they want. Even the 321 has some bad wake behind it.
 
I have noticed that some controllers get a little over eager to launch planes. I got cleared for takeoff and a 757 wasn't even close to rotating on the same runway.
 
Derg said:
I have noticed that some controllers get a little over eager to launch planes. I got cleared for takeoff and a 757 wasn't even close to rotating on the same runway.
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It's ASLAR, man. Aircraft Surge Launch And Recovery. Or for the SAC heavies, MITO.

Cleared for takeoff before the plane in front of you has rotated....pfffft. B-52/KC-135 crews on scramble launch laugh at that huge amount of separation! :D

This.....is minimal takeoff separation.

Wake turbulence what? Lol

 
MikeD said:
It's ASLAR, man. Aircraft Surge Launch And Recovery. Or for the SAC heavies, MITO.

Cleared for takeoff before the plane in front of you has rotated....pfffft. B-52/KC-135 crews on scramble launch laugh at that huge amount of separation! :D

This.....is minimal takeoff separation.

Wake turbulence what? Lol

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I love watching those damn mass launches.



 
Derg said:
I have noticed that some controllers get a little over eager to launch planes. I got cleared for takeoff and a 757 wasn't even close to rotating on the same runway.
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Depends on where the wind is blowing to, to be fair. 15kt crosswind? Who cares. Straight down the runway? I give myself some time behind a twin otter.
 
When my dad was the Vice-Wing commander at Pope AFB I was able to watch a mass C-130 launch. As in every C-130 based there. Talk about smoke. Man it was almost nighttime in the middle of the day.
 
MikeD said:
You have to make sure you watch the old school ones from the 80s and earlier, so you get the full effect of smoke and noise from water injected, straight turbojet engines.
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I love these videos. Plus, all that smoke makes it easier to see the wake
It's for safety, environmentalists

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
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