Seggy
Well-Known Member
And I was thinking my saving grace was it won't mess with awesome international schedules. I was wrong then
I don't know about that yet. There are still plenty of three day international trips at my place.
How is FAR 117 negatively impacting you?
- Thread starter SpiceWeasel
- Start date
I don't know about that yet. There are still plenty of three day international trips at my place.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
That doesn't seem like to much of a change, especially at a regional, as the flying gets shifted around and it could have just been associated with that.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
@cencal83406 Once the reserve guys go back to a normal number this will get better. Looks like 3-4 guys will be above the push for every one guy that isn't on reserve. They should work us back a littleFeb and March.
Of course if we don't have any pilots, probably not.
Of course if we don't have any pilots, probably not.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
It's actually better for me since I live in base. I usually do two day trips that are one leg transcons. With the nature of a transcon, you could only do 4 of those before hitting a 30/7 issue. Now with FAR 117, I got three 2-day trips in a row for a total block of 37 hours and then off for 5 days. Living in base and driving to work, life is good with FAR 117.
Dugie8
Well-Known Member
Wow, where do I sign up?
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Screaming_Emu
Well-Known Member
My schedule is actually remarkably efficient.
I'd post days off, credit, etc but I have vacation in Jan and don't feel like doing math.
I'd post days off, credit, etc but I have vacation in Jan and don't feel like doing math.
Depends on the city. Some of the secondary markets go to less-than-daily service which generates longer layovers.
But we do have three international hubs with at least daily service year-round that don't typically generate 48-plus hour layovers.
Very generally, we were sometimes able to bang out an 11 day trip, deadhead to a layover first and last day, which technically created a 9 day trip which paid for 11, that will require a 48 hour layover, in theater, to satisfy FAR 117, because of the change in how deadheads are interpreted and how much rest you need.
So essentially, you lose a day off with not much in the way of making it financially worth it or even fostering safety. I can bang out 9 or 12 days as each layover is 24-hours plus. Once I stay "in theater" for more than about a day, my body clock will adjust to the time zone and it completely kicks my ass after a long layover.
The law of unintended consequences because, after all, no one actually stopped to query the people who actually use the system, just seemingly a bunch of people that are basically flightless birds, unfortunately.
And, what's actually worse, it extends the amount of flying that can go "unaugmented". If you don't have contractual language about what the company will augment (thus giving a crew a rest opportunity), hell, you can damned near fly JFK to ATH on a two-man crew.
That's nuts.
But oh yes, we can get those sweet sweet transcon JFK turns now.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Do you think that less than daily service to secondary cities is a result of FAR117 or the fact that you have a few "international" hubs (CDG, AMS etc) and your partner airlines are flying hourly service to a lot of those secondary cities out of those hubs so there is no need for daily service from your own hubs?
I really don't know as about half of our international destinations already were every other day service. There are a few 5 day trips out there which, due to ok rigs pay just fine, but aren't very productive as far as flying time goes.
I didn't mean to leave that impression.
We've always had 'less than daily' service to particular international cities which sprung 48 hour-plus layovers sometimes. But that's not because of 117.
Dugie8
Well-Known Member
Man. If 135 adopted this, I would be in HEAVEN!!! (said in Archer's voice).
60 hours of flight duty in, essentially, a 7 day period. YES PLEASE!!! Duty limits based on number legs and back side of the clock, knocking duty down to 9 hours or so. Please sir, may I have some more!!!!
You guys are lucky....
60 hours of flight duty in, essentially, a 7 day period. YES PLEASE!!! Duty limits based on number legs and back side of the clock, knocking duty down to 9 hours or so. Please sir, may I have some more!!!!
You guys are lucky....
I'm sure there's a part-91 guy who would love your work rules under part-135.
YOU'RE lucky to 91-drivers so how dare you ask for better!
Pretty much.I'm sure there's a part-91 guy who would love your work rules under part-135.
YOU'RE lucky to 91-drivers so how dare you ask for better!
I'm ready for a flying job with a contract.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Wouldn't the company look to avoid paying the soft time of deadheads, any trip rig, min day credit, hotel, per diem, and just look break those 11 day trips, which were made into 9 day trips, into 3 day trips then?
Dugie8
Well-Known Member
I'm sure there's a part-91 guy who would love your work rules under part-135.
YOU'RE lucky to 91-drivers so how dare you ask for better!
Truth. Plus, this would only really benefit my little corner of the 135 world. We don't overnight and have set duty schedules (kind of).
Can't really. Take a peek at the route map and tell me how many non-hub cities we fly out of just AMS and CDG alone. Remember there are only 330 bases in SEA, DTW and ATL.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Here's mine:
December
Days off: 14
Credit: 88:37
Longest Duty day: 11 hours
Shortest overnight: 10:21
Longest overnight: 19:19
January
Days off: 13
Credit: 88:38
Longest duty day:11:15
Shortest overnight: 11:01
Longest overnight: 15:47
Not too different. I lost one day off for about the same amount of credit. I can deal with that.
December
Days off: 14
Credit: 88:37
Longest Duty day: 11 hours
Shortest overnight: 10:21
Longest overnight: 19:19
January
Days off: 13
Credit: 88:38
Longest duty day:11:15
Shortest overnight: 11:01
Longest overnight: 15:47
Not too different. I lost one day off for about the same amount of credit. I can deal with that.
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
After SkedPlus+ allowed changes, I picked up a 4-day at the end of the month (carry-out credit for the win), so the month looks like this:
- 12 days off (meh)
- 91:02 credit (was 80:02) all in 4-day trips
- Shortest overnight scheduled 12 hours, 15 minutes
- Everything signs in at noon or later, which, while not my favorite way to fly, is at least CONSISTENT.
Granted, some of this is luck, some is good bidding and some is happening to be on the computer when SkedPlus opens up.
For comparison, December was sort of screwy:
- 17 days off
- 79 hours credit (was displaced for IOE)
- three or four locals the rest four day trips.
- 12 days off (meh)
- 91:02 credit (was 80:02) all in 4-day trips
- Shortest overnight scheduled 12 hours, 15 minutes
- Everything signs in at noon or later, which, while not my favorite way to fly, is at least CONSISTENT.
Granted, some of this is luck, some is good bidding and some is happening to be on the computer when SkedPlus opens up.
For comparison, December was sort of screwy:
- 17 days off
- 79 hours credit (was displaced for IOE)
- three or four locals the rest four day trips.
ClarkGriswold
Non Nutritive Cereal Varnish Engineer
14 days off, 89 hours. 4 4 Days. Don't feel like looking up shortest over night, etc. December was the same.