How is FAR 117 negatively impacting you?

Polar742 said:
Doesn't affect me, as freight pilots seem to have special anti-fatigue genes or something. Apparently, if we fly airplanes with windows in the cabin somehow our magical powers weaken and we suddenly need sleep.​
Click to expand...

When international, we have ZERO duty limitations; on call all the time, surprise 22 hour days starting mid afternoon are pretty common. We do not suffer from any fatigue whatsoever - but don't let our BMI get too high.
 
Polar742 said:
Doesn't affect me, as freight pilots seem to have special anti-fatigue genes or something. Apparently, if we fly airplanes with windows in the cabin somehow our magical powers weaken and we suddenly need sleep.​
Click to expand...

Our management pilot who testified for the cargo cutout was promoted to company chief pilot.
 
Adler said:
When international, we have ZERO duty limitations; on call all the time, surprise 22 hour days starting mid afternoon are pretty common. We do not suffer from any fatigue whatsoever - but don't let our BMI get too high.
Click to expand...

121 supplemental is amazing, but in a sick & twisted way.

Thankfully we have a CBA and fly a lot of flag.
 
2 pilots + FE? 12 hours block, you're safe no worries! Need to fly 16? Just add one more CA & FE. The FO should be fine....

Yup, those are the rules, no sarcasm or satire.
 
Polar742 said:
121 supplemental is amazing, but in a sick & twisted way.

Thankfully we have a CBA and fly a lot of flag.
Click to expand...
Supplemental is absolutely the worst set of non-rules I've ever seen. Just brutal.

Flag is pretty bad, but yeah, thankfully we have the CBA to put duty limits on there. Now if only I didn't run into people telling me "Don't worry about that...we can get the job done. The chief pilot will waive the CBA limit." True story. :bang:
 
dasleben said:
Supplemental is absolutely the worst set of non-rules I've ever seen. Just brutal.

Flag is pretty bad, but yeah, thankfully we have the CBA to put duty limits on there. Now if only I didn't run into people telling me "Don't worry about that...we can get the job done. The chief pilot will waive the CBA limit." True story. :bang:
Click to expand...
"Yes, yes, I want the company to make money, but no, you don't understand. This is about safety."
 
DE727UPS said:
Our management pilot who testified for the cargo cutout was promoted to company chief pilot.
Click to expand...
37534952.jpg
 
January schedules just came out

December 2013:
Days off: 16
Credit: 96:06
Longest Duty Day: 13:21
Shortest Layover: 9:32
Longest Layover: 18:07

January 2014:
Days off: 15
Credit: 90:37
Longest Duty Day: 12:18
Shortest Layover: 10:38
Longest Layover: 35:44
 
Last edited:
I'm a newbie... But if I'm understanding this right, this reg means you guys now have less days off, longer unpaid overnights, and less flight time(Pay)?

Am doing my best to educate myself on the issue, but there's a lot I'm not going to understand as a lowly CFI. This could be a serious issue on days where weather causes delays correct?
 
Ayork62493 said:
I'm a newbie... But if I'm understanding this right, this reg means you guys now have less days off, longer unpaid overnights, and less flight time(Pay)?

Am doing my best to educate myself on the issue, but there's a lot I'm not going to understand as a lowly CFI. This could be a serious issue on days where weather causes delays correct?
Click to expand...

Depends if an airline has a "rig" structure for pay. Usually this is only via a CBA negotiated by a Union, but there could be an airline that has this instituted by management.

What a "rig" does is compensate for scheduling inefficiencies, and ensure you're paid for time you should be productive. So, if you fly a 4 day trip, but only fly one leg for a 1 hour block each leg, you're at work for 4 hours of pay. Normally, you can fly up to 8 hours a day, but realistically you could fly 5.5 block each day. So let's say the rig is set to pay you 4.5 hours a day. Now you're earning 18 hours of pay for 4 days. Not as good as the 22 you could do, but way better for the 4 hours you'd otherwise earn.

It's a an overly simplistic example, but you should get the idea. Just like a minimum amount of time a student can book & pay for as a policy at some FBOs.
 
Effectively, I have fewer days off and instead of a couple extra days at home, I get a couple extra days sitting on my ass in a hotel. So basically, pattern bidding is much more difficult and since I have to work more, smaller trips if I don't want to sit around warming a hotel desk chair, I have to actually end up commuting more and working more.

So my easy 80 hour month became about a 70 hour month.

I think it might be a good thing for the domestic side and kind of a pain in the ass on the international side.
 
Derg said:
Effectively, I have fewer days off and instead of a couple extra days at home, I get a couple extra days sitting on my ass in a hotel. So basically, pattern bidding is much more difficult and since I have to work more, smaller trips if I don't want to sit around warming a hotel desk chair, I have to actually end up commuting more and working more.

So my easy 80 hour month became about a 70 hour month.

I think it might be a good thing for the domestic side and kind of a pain in the ass on the international side.
Click to expand...
And I was thinking my saving grace was it won't mess with awesome international schedules. I was wrong then :(
 
Just an update for the RAH side of things: we have gone 31 hours past the normal publishing of schedules...maybe they will get it tomorrow or by March.

so as of know 117 has completely wiped our ability to publish schedules on time...so I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I'M DOING NEXT MONTH!
 
So far many of the folks I have spoken with here are seeing a decrease in credit and on average a longer time away from base on each trip, as well as fewer days off. If you commute and I do, the amount of commutable trips shrunk substantially. In over two years of commuting I think I bought two or three hotel rooms and never needed a crash pad. For January my credit did not decrease, but only about half my trips are commutable. I’m usually about 14 - 15 days off a month, 13 for January.

I'm a bit cranky about my results thus far and I'm hoping we work a few of the scheduling kinks out over the next few months. I’m crossing my fingers, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
 
Lee D said:
So far many of the folks I have spoken with here are seeing a decrease in credit and on average a longer time away from base on each trip, as well as fewer days off. If you commute and I do, the amount of commutable trips shrunk substantially. In over two years of commuting I think I bought two or three hotel rooms and never needed a crash pad. For January my credit did not decrease, but only about half my trips are commutable. I’m usually about 14 - 15 days off a month, 13 for January.

I'm a bit cranky about my results thus far and I'm hoping we work a few of the scheduling kinks out over the next few months. I’m crossing my fingers, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure that they will "sort it out" - it's just a question of "how" and who they consult to do the sorting out. (Here's a hint on who they won't consult - "SAPA is 'disappointed' that...")

I haven't heard anything bad out of the Brasilia guys, but it sounds like the jet took a bit of a turn for the slightly worse in terms of credit and days off (if the amount of griping on the various other forums is to be believed). Of course, since we don't have any way to look at EVERYONE's awards and come up with some aggregate statistics...we'll not know.

Incidentally, I'm told that SFO CRJ/CR7 has folks who are lineholders who bid something like 95%. :eek:
 
Derg said:
Effectively, I have fewer days off and instead of a couple extra days at home, I get a couple extra days sitting on my ass in a hotel. So basically, pattern bidding is much more difficult and since I have to work more, smaller trips if I don't want to sit around warming a hotel desk chair, I have to actually end up commuting more and working more.

So my easy 80 hour month became about a 70 hour month.

I think it might be a good thing for the domestic side and kind of a pain in the ass on the international side.
Click to expand...

Isn't January typically a 'slow' fly month on the international side anyway? How does this compare to years past? Could it also have to do with the the refitting of the seats on the Bus?

Reason I am asking is that at my place there are still a lot of three day international trips.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top