Cessnaflyer
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
I think most funds are up that much this year. You would have to screw up badly to be much behind that.
For anyone thinking of taking out a loan
- Thread starter JJ8Flyer
- Start date
zmiller4
Well-Known Member
I think this is largely true, but a number of the better schools have some form of financial incentive for graduates who work for humanitarian non-profits. It's probably not going to make up the difference between making $200k at a corporate law practice and $45k at a do-gooder firm, but something like Harvard Law's program can go a long way towards keeping people going in desperately needed fields that can't pay adequately. We all moan about pilots being under-compensated for their experience and responsibility, but the number of Ivy League graduates who choose to work for mid 5 figures is pretty impressive.
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
Huh?
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
Wonder how those folks felt in 2008 with the run from 2003-2007
lr31apilot
Well-Known Member
Good Thread. I'm a dave ramsey fan but he is by no means the only way to go. As others have said earlier, 95% of people could do with a little more financial responsibly when it comes to personal finance. His callers are that 95% and he gives them great advise.
This thread is a good start because it gets people talking and thinking about money. If you are purposeful and responsible with your money it will work out fine.
This thread is a good start because it gets people talking and thinking about money. If you are purposeful and responsible with your money it will work out fine.
Cessnaflyer
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Fire sale on equities!
JustinS
Well-Known Member
Whats done is done. I agree with what others have said about timing and getting your training done quick. I'm hoping that pays off in the long term. Short term, it is a daily struggle. My wife has made me a better person with my money though. Our monthly expenses currently allow us to pay our cheap rent on the house, food, gas, necessities, bills, and still save a few hundred every month. Having an emergency fund saved up before getting married and before having to start payments on loans have been a HUGE help. My wife has also turned into a couponer. I can't complain when we go to the store and get necessities for free.
For anyone trying to save money or live frugally, not eating out at all is a great way to save money each month. $200 for one month for my wife and I to eat is a HUGE amount of savings compared to when I was paying $200-$300 a month for myself to eat. I do miss eating out though...
This thread is full of excellent advice.
For anyone trying to save money or live frugally, not eating out at all is a great way to save money each month. $200 for one month for my wife and I to eat is a HUGE amount of savings compared to when I was paying $200-$300 a month for myself to eat. I do miss eating out though...
This thread is full of excellent advice.
z987k
Well-Known Member
And I have you good sir, to thank for getting it all started and the financial independence I have today.
stormchaser
Well-Known Member
I just smiled real big. That's so satisfying. Thanks.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
School is expensive. But it my case, I think it was worth every penny of the Air Force's money
hook_dupin
Well-Known Member
School is expensive. But it my case, I think it was worth every penny of the Air Force's money
I'm now working on my third gov't - funded degree. It's been a hell of a deal so far...
Zidac
Well-Known Member
Glad I wasn't the only one to notice the sexism.
Galaitoto
Well-Known Member
I hate debt too, which is why I live in a van down by the river, no seriously.That is my stance, too...without the nitty gritty details. But I will give him credit...if we started callin' 'em debt scores instead of credit scores, we might not want a high one so much...
Or instead of sayin', "My credit card company raised my credit," we said, "My debt card company raised my debt limit," we might view it differently.
Anyway. He has excellent points. I respect the man. And I respect a man who hates debt.
School is expensive. But it my case, I think it was worth every penny of the Air Force's money
Dammit, I keep forgetting you're a "fast neat average friendly good good" type. I'm surprised @MikeD hasn't said how much he hates you yet!
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
I really like what @Acrofox said.
Personally, I'm totally against debt. I came very close(as many who went to NJC know) to taking a loan and going to ATP last month. But I didn't. I've stayed out of debt, and didn't want to end up paying an extra $20-25k in interest on a loan to finish my ratings. But as Fox laid out, I'm just lucky I can make that decision. My parents paid for most of my PPL, and my ex-girlfriend helped me out with it as well which kept me debt free. From then on, I was paying out of my own pocket and flying whenever I could. That was, until my infamous Caddy went to that big gangsta lot in the sky. But when that did happen, I was able to go to the bank of mom for an interest free loan on a nice used car. I had to quit flying for a little over a year paying that back. However, the bank of mom, unlike most banks, is very understanding when you decide to stop paying off your debt to instead save money for flying. Luckily, I've made friends on this site over the years like @drunkenbeagle who are now generously willing to help me finish my ratings saving me tons of money in the process. I don't make much money in the ramp tower, probably just a little better than first year regional pay, but I absolutely love what I do. I really don't mind picking up as many shifts as I can to make money for flying.
Now let's see how different my life would be and how a loan might have made sense if things were just a little less in my favor.
Let's say when my car died, my family was poor and couldn't do anything for me. I had just found an apartment with a friend in San Jose and was about to sign the lease. I couldn't afford to move out if I had to get a car on my own, I would have stayed at my parents house near SFO. Not moving to San Jose means I don't meet my girlfriend and other great things don't happen to me. But lets keep it financial. I'm carless at my parent's house, I need to take out an auto loan because I need a car. I want a cheap car, but I can't afford it up front. I can't get approved for a small loan ($4,000ish) for the car I want. The bank says big loan or no loan. I end up getting a car twice as expensive because I have to. Now I have to pay off that $8,000 car working my ass off on the ramp the next few years. This means when I interview at the ramp tower and they tell me after training I will be "on call" indefinitely until someone quits or gets fired, I have to turn it down. Loan payments mean I need steady paychecks, I can't leave my ramp rat job at Skywest. I'm stuck. At the end of all the payments, I haven't flown for a few years. I'm in my mid-late 20s, no degree, didn't have time to pursue the comedy stuff because I was working all the time and couldn't invest in equipment, and I haven't flown in 3 years or so. Now, a flight training loan looks to be my only option as I'm not lucky enough to have made great friends on these forums and I need to get my ass in gear.
At the end of the day, as Fox said, any of us who manage to get our ratings without a loan are, at the end of the day, lucky. Sure, there are other aspects to it, but for most of us, we're privileged. Different strokes for different folks, I understand why so many end up in debt, and would never think one is an idiot because of it.
Personally, I'm totally against debt. I came very close(as many who went to NJC know) to taking a loan and going to ATP last month. But I didn't. I've stayed out of debt, and didn't want to end up paying an extra $20-25k in interest on a loan to finish my ratings. But as Fox laid out, I'm just lucky I can make that decision. My parents paid for most of my PPL, and my ex-girlfriend helped me out with it as well which kept me debt free. From then on, I was paying out of my own pocket and flying whenever I could. That was, until my infamous Caddy went to that big gangsta lot in the sky. But when that did happen, I was able to go to the bank of mom for an interest free loan on a nice used car. I had to quit flying for a little over a year paying that back. However, the bank of mom, unlike most banks, is very understanding when you decide to stop paying off your debt to instead save money for flying. Luckily, I've made friends on this site over the years like @drunkenbeagle who are now generously willing to help me finish my ratings saving me tons of money in the process. I don't make much money in the ramp tower, probably just a little better than first year regional pay, but I absolutely love what I do. I really don't mind picking up as many shifts as I can to make money for flying.
Now let's see how different my life would be and how a loan might have made sense if things were just a little less in my favor.
Let's say when my car died, my family was poor and couldn't do anything for me. I had just found an apartment with a friend in San Jose and was about to sign the lease. I couldn't afford to move out if I had to get a car on my own, I would have stayed at my parents house near SFO. Not moving to San Jose means I don't meet my girlfriend and other great things don't happen to me. But lets keep it financial. I'm carless at my parent's house, I need to take out an auto loan because I need a car. I want a cheap car, but I can't afford it up front. I can't get approved for a small loan ($4,000ish) for the car I want. The bank says big loan or no loan. I end up getting a car twice as expensive because I have to. Now I have to pay off that $8,000 car working my ass off on the ramp the next few years. This means when I interview at the ramp tower and they tell me after training I will be "on call" indefinitely until someone quits or gets fired, I have to turn it down. Loan payments mean I need steady paychecks, I can't leave my ramp rat job at Skywest. I'm stuck. At the end of all the payments, I haven't flown for a few years. I'm in my mid-late 20s, no degree, didn't have time to pursue the comedy stuff because I was working all the time and couldn't invest in equipment, and I haven't flown in 3 years or so. Now, a flight training loan looks to be my only option as I'm not lucky enough to have made great friends on these forums and I need to get my ass in gear.
At the end of the day, as Fox said, any of us who manage to get our ratings without a loan are, at the end of the day, lucky. Sure, there are other aspects to it, but for most of us, we're privileged. Different strokes for different folks, I understand why so many end up in debt, and would never think one is an idiot because of it.
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dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
Eh, my 401k is in a small-cap growth fund right now that's averaged a 12% ROR each year since 1993. However, I am taking on quite a lot of risk with it (which I accept). Of course, past performance doesn't guarantee future results, etc. And yes, if your fund isn't up at least 12% this year, it's time to find a new fund. However, expect increased drawdown with these aggressive investments.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
I did it debt free. Now I kind of have a complex about paying for aviation and I'm still pretty traumatized after the last 10 years. For the past month or so it has been worth it. I hope things stay like this for 10 years and then I will be real happy to do what I did.
The timing for getting the loan and doing the spam can student to pro pilot in 9 months was insane in 2003/4. If I had done that I'd be a 10 year 121 pilot with the majors hiring.
I guess we shall see what happens.
The timing for getting the loan and doing the spam can student to pro pilot in 9 months was insane in 2003/4. If I had done that I'd be a 10 year 121 pilot with the majors hiring.
I guess we shall see what happens.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
Just some perspective
As a commuter FO on second year I was saving roughly $1500-2000 a month after taxes. Third year another $300 or so. When I upgraded at 30 months I was putting away over $5k a month after taxes sometimes as much as $6k and that didn't include my 401k and IRA contribution. I lived with a "roommate" back then (girlfriend) if I lived on my own it would certainly be less but that is your call. That $50k loan goes pretty quick when you do it that way. And then you have the rest of your life to enjoy the fruits of your labor.
Or, you could slave away making $20,000 a year as a ramper/fast food worker/retail worker for the better part of a decade trying to scrounge up the money to pay cash.
Obviously, if you have a high paying job that allows you to save and pay cash that is the best way, but the great thing about loans is if you do not, it allows you to get to that point at a relatively low cost.
Example, $50k loan @ 8%. Assuming it can be paid off in 4 years, not entirely unreasonable, you're looking at only $8500 in interest over the life of the loan, or around $2100/year or $175/month. Even at FO pay that is just 4 hours or 5% of your pay on second year pay. That is nothing in the big scheme of things. People look at the loan amount ($50k) and say wow that is a lot of money, true, but that is what everyone is paying. So it's a wash. Look at the cost to service the loan.
Same thing goes for a house. My $1000 mortgage is made up of $200 in taxes/insurance and $300 in interest. The rest pays the principle which I get back when I sell. So to "rent" my house it's costing me $500/month (plus expenses, crossing fingers). Fairly inexpensive.
Taking debt to better the quality of your life is not evil. Taking excessive loans out to artificially inflate the quality of your life is what is bad, and makes for great media attention, but it rarely happens.
I sold my car to a guy with a great story. Came to this country with nothing and got an "evil" CC. Loaded it up with lawn care and pressure washing equipment, started small, and worked his way up to owning several trucks and crews doing lawn care for apartments. Yes, he paid a thousand or so in interest before he could pay it off but so what? The cost of money is relatively cheap if you use it for your benefit.
As a commuter FO on second year I was saving roughly $1500-2000 a month after taxes. Third year another $300 or so. When I upgraded at 30 months I was putting away over $5k a month after taxes sometimes as much as $6k and that didn't include my 401k and IRA contribution. I lived with a "roommate" back then (girlfriend) if I lived on my own it would certainly be less but that is your call. That $50k loan goes pretty quick when you do it that way. And then you have the rest of your life to enjoy the fruits of your labor.
Or, you could slave away making $20,000 a year as a ramper/fast food worker/retail worker for the better part of a decade trying to scrounge up the money to pay cash.
Obviously, if you have a high paying job that allows you to save and pay cash that is the best way, but the great thing about loans is if you do not, it allows you to get to that point at a relatively low cost.
Example, $50k loan @ 8%. Assuming it can be paid off in 4 years, not entirely unreasonable, you're looking at only $8500 in interest over the life of the loan, or around $2100/year or $175/month. Even at FO pay that is just 4 hours or 5% of your pay on second year pay. That is nothing in the big scheme of things. People look at the loan amount ($50k) and say wow that is a lot of money, true, but that is what everyone is paying. So it's a wash. Look at the cost to service the loan.
Same thing goes for a house. My $1000 mortgage is made up of $200 in taxes/insurance and $300 in interest. The rest pays the principle which I get back when I sell. So to "rent" my house it's costing me $500/month (plus expenses, crossing fingers). Fairly inexpensive.
Taking debt to better the quality of your life is not evil. Taking excessive loans out to artificially inflate the quality of your life is what is bad, and makes for great media attention, but it rarely happens.
I sold my car to a guy with a great story. Came to this country with nothing and got an "evil" CC. Loaded it up with lawn care and pressure washing equipment, started small, and worked his way up to owning several trucks and crews doing lawn care for apartments. Yes, he paid a thousand or so in interest before he could pay it off but so what? The cost of money is relatively cheap if you use it for your benefit.
mastermags
Well-Known Member *giggity*
I guess I was just being sarcastic. Sure there are 12% funds out there but the average hands off investor probably isnt going to stumble upon them.... Ya know, like the kind of investor that has to be shown graphically why car payments are bad.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
Why are car payments bad?