8/24 PAO fuel emergency ATC

BEEF SUPREME said:
Yeah but throw in a bit of haze, strange lighting (not sure of time of day), amateurish paranoia about busting class B and that dry feeling in your mouth when you know you have really ed up - well it all goes pear shaped.
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Guess so. It happened just after 6pm local by the way, maybe 1.5 hours prior to sunset and the pilot was flying with the sun behind him, just for the record.
 
A Life Aloft said:
Very good job by ATC. Clear, not too speedy, short, precise instructions. Had him remain under his control the entire time and help keep him from becoming even more panicked. Kept reinforcing to the pilot that he was there with him and updating his position. Very important psychologically. Kept the pilot more focused. Good job. How soon many forget, until things go tits up, just how damn good these guys are and how desperately we need their help when they do.

Man, the pilot just sounded out to lunch. Sounded like he didn't know what the hell he was doing. Be interesting if there is some follow up that will be revealed.
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And the controllers at Palo Alto are, in my opinion, a class act.

-Fox
 
Acrofox said:
And the controllers at Palo Alto are, in my opinion, a class act.

-Fox
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I have always had the highest respect and admiration for Controllers and the work that they perform. In the busiest airspace they do a remarkable job. In an emergency, they can be a life savers. And what many young pilots do not understand/know yet is that their profession has had just about as much b.s. in it to contend with, as our own careers have had. They have been screwed, underappreciated, scrutinized and more in their profession as much as we have over the years.

I have always viewed ATC as part of the team that makes me able to do what I do and do it safely. Some pilots too quickly forget this. Be as patient, courteous, cooperative, understanding and pay as much attention to them as you desire the same treatment inkind from them. When you can, visit a tower. (I understand this used to be much easier and thankfully I took every opportunity to do so over the decades) Learn about their work. You will be impressed. And thank them.
 
A Life Aloft said:
I have always had the highest respect and admiration for Controllers and the work that they perform. In the busiest airspace they do a remarkable job. In an emergency, they can be a life savers. And what many young pilots do not understand/know yet is that their profession has had just about as much b.s. in it to contend with as our own careers have had. They have been screwed, underappreciated, scrutinized and more in their profession as much as we have over the years.

I have always viewed ATC as part of the team that makes me able to do what I do and do it safely. Some pilots too quickly forget this. Be as patient, courteous, cooperative, understanding and pay as much attention to them as you desire the same treatment inkind from them. When you can, visit a tower. (I understand this used to be much easier and thankfully I took every opportunity to do so over the decades) Learn about their work. You will be impressed. And thank them.
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Like! Like! A thousand times Like!

~Fox
 
mshunter said:
Complacency? And you'll get to a point where landing with an hour of fuel in your tanks will be detrimental to your job most likely.
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Call me complacent.
I always plan to land with at least an hour of fuel. Minimum. Doesn't always go as planned, with the occasional unexpected holding or go-around. But with 14 years of flying, I have yet to wish I had less fuel on landing. And a few times, I wished I had planned an extra hour of fuel despite not thinking I'd need it ahead of time.
 
I personally use an hour and I figure pretty conservatively on fuel burn. If a figure employer wanted me to use the legal minimum reserve so be it, as long as it's legal, but if I have a choice that's what I do.
 
99driver said:
Call me complacent.
I always plan to land with at least an hour of fuel. Minimum. Doesn't always go as planned, with the occasional unexpected holding or go-around. But with 14 years of flying, I have yet to wish I had less fuel on landing. And a few times, I wished I had planned an extra hour of fuel despite not thinking I'd need it ahead of time.
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Sounds to me like I missed the nature of your post, or misread it.
 
There is a difference between having what you want in the tanks and flying commercially. I agree if its my plane I'll want the hour, for pay it might be 30 mins but you bet I've calculated that number to death before I get anywhere near it and the fuel stop is right underneath me.
 
Unknown pilot was setting himself up for legal trouble. If communications got jimer jammered, and ish happened, unknown pilot could be successfully sued. He should have STFU.

I remember reading a case in AOPA mag, A guy had a gear emergency. ATC vectored him away from the airport, and was helping him deal with it. Two other a/c had a midair. The guy with the gear problem was successfully sued by the estates of the midairs, for taking up too much time on the freq.
 
I love hearing when controllers help out so much. I've only declared once, approach coordinated with the tower got everyone out of my way and relayed my landing clearance.

Once I was on the ground I called them on the phone to thank them for their help. They said "It's just part of my job" To paraphrase my response I told them that I understand that is their job, but when I have a rough engine that could quit at anytime I'm flying straight to the runway, and their assistance was priceless regardless of if they felt heroic or not.
 
Itchy said:
Unknown pilot was setting himself up for legal trouble. If communications got jimer jammered, and ish happened, unknown pilot could be successfully sued. He should have STFU.

I remember reading a case in AOPA mag, A guy had a gear emergency. ATC vectored him away from the airport, and was helping him deal with it. Two other a/c had a midair. The guy with the gear problem was successfully sued by the estates of the midairs, for taking up too much time on the freq.
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You'd have to identify the unknown pilot though, and since he didn't come on identifying himself it could be rather difficult to do that.
 
z987k said:
You'd have to identify the unknown pilot though, and since he didn't come on identifying himself it could be rather difficult to do that.
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Yeah, listening most of the full clip, I never heard his voice on frequency. He may have just been monitoring and put in his $.02.
 
mshunter said:
Sounds to me like I missed the nature of your post, or misread it.
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It sounded like you were saying that a lot of fuel makes you stop thinking about fuel-starvation possibilities. Like it makes you complacent. I was simply saying that too much fuel is better than not enough. In my book, anyway.
 
Itchy said:
Unknown pilot was setting himself up for legal trouble. If communications got jimer jammered, and ish happened, unknown pilot could be successfully sued. He should have STFU.

I remember reading a case in AOPA mag, A guy had a gear emergency. ATC vectored him away from the airport, and was helping him deal with it. Two other a/c had a midair. The guy with the gear problem was successfully sued by the estates of the midairs, for taking up too much time on the freq.
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My favorite on-air interjection was a buddy of mine.
A guy we both knew who is a total tard in an airplane was out in his Extra one day. Tard calls emergency stating that his engine has quit and he's going down in a field. My buddy who was on freq at the time calls out "NXXXX, fuel pump on, switch tanks." About 30 seconds later, Tard comes back on stating that all is well and he's making straight in on an 8 mile final. The only thing that would have made it better is if my buddy had played the Apple "sosumi" sound at the end of his transmission, or alternatively, if he had let Tard crash his Extra and learn his lesson...maybe.
 
Ajax said:
I love hearing when controllers help out so much. I've only declared once, approach coordinated with the tower got everyone out of my way and relayed my landing clearance.

Once I was on the ground I called them on the phone to thank them for their help. They said "It's just part of my job" To paraphrase my response I told them that I understand that is their job, but when I have a rough engine that could quit at anytime I'm flying straight to the runway, and their assistance was priceless regardless of if they felt heroic or not.
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Was it a Commander by chance? Some distant fourth of July weekend I had exactly what you describe. The pilot decided to mention a small touch of roughness with the oil pressure a shade low (the only time I've ever heard a pilot comment on the state of their engine). His mention was the only reason I tossed in a Bravo clearance. Normally I wouldn't as it would have saved at best half a mile, but it brought him a few feet closer to a few airports enroute. Turns out he elected to land at one of those as a precautionary, which was a good idea because his engine grenaded on final. Plane made the runway by 25 feet.

Yup, I learned a lesson. I learned to trust my 6th sense and be more in tune with the pilot. That served me very well one April day.
 
genot said:
Was it a Commander by chance? Some distant fourth of July weekend I had exactly what you describe. The pilot decided to mention a small touch of roughness with the oil pressure a shade low (the only time I've ever heard a pilot comment on the state of their engine). His mention was the only reason I tossed in a Bravo clearance. Normally I wouldn't as it would have saved at best half a mile, but it brought him a few feet closer to a few airports enroute. Turns out he elected to land at one of those as a precautionary, which was a good idea because his engine grenaded on final. Plane made the runway by 25 feet.

Yup, I learned a lesson. I learned to trust my 6th sense and be more in tune with the pilot. That served me very well one April day.
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No, I was a 172
 
You're the one who held it together anyway. Airshowing a final is infinitely easier than being in the hot seat.

Fine work.
 
That controller did an amazing job. I was fortunate enough to get a tower tour at PAO ~5 years ago, and I believe I met this gentleman. If so, awesome guy.

Cal Goat said:
Also, who is flying around the bay area in a modern airplane with no GPS? He didn't have GPS right? Cuz he sounded pretty lost.
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I learned to fly in the north bay in a clapped out /U Cessna 152, and did quite a few bay tours with nothing but a TAC chart. It's do-able, but things can get interesting... especially the San Mateo Bridge mid-span transition between SQL and OAK, when you're wondering exactly where the midspan is (hint: it's east of the high span!) and exactly where the Class B starts. Great situational awareness exercise though! :)
 
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