Medevac

Dugie8 said:
Keep in mind I can't get into anything much shorter than 5500 feet so that skews my data a bit.
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5500ft!? Air Ambo C-5?

Well, not as crazy as it sounds. With all the people and stuff our hospital wants to bring, it's been only half-jokingly suggested that what they need is a CH-53 so they can just bring the hospital to the patient...
 
MikeD said:
Burn the heretic!
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In another life I was a whirlygig appliance operator. Love those idiotic machines. Like I pray that we'll go down for MX on my hitch so (since I have to show up anyway) I can go ride along with the GloryHogs and knock tree branches in to cars.
 
Boris Badenov said:
5500ft!? Air Ambo C-5?

Well, not as crazy as it sounds. With all the people and stuff our hospital wants to bring, it's been only half-jokingly suggested that what they need is a CH-53 so they can just bring the hospital to the patient...
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Or, if they're a bunch of enemy Al Queda wounded, can just sling load them to the medevac pad.....take the whole load of them at once.
 
Well, remember with 60% factored and a beechjets already greedy runway needs even 5500 feet is pushing it legally.
 
Dugie8 said:
Well, remember with 60% factored and a beechjets already greedy runway needs even 5500 feet is pushing it legally.
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Oh, I didn't realize you drove the bitchjet! Yeah, it's a uh a little pokey on the runway numbers. But 5500ft? Well, figure with all the crap in the back you're probably always heavy, so yeah, under 135 I guess it's probably something like that. Hopefully you're not in a straight 400 with the tiny brakes and no buckets. That thing made for some fun stories...

PS. Climb was BeastMode, though. Well, for a bitchjet... :D
 
Boris Badenov said:
5500ft!? Air Ambo C-5?
...
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We did have medevac C-9As at one time, up until a few years ago. C-141s did the role, but weren't dedicated as-such, like the C-9 was.

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400A. All this thing needs is carbon breaks and voila some descent numbers.

300 pounds of med equipment....
 
Boris Badenov said:
Nightengale, if memory serves? I'll bet those guys got some poop... ;)
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Yes sir. C-9A model (USAF) Nightengale. Out of Scott and Ramstein. C-9B (USN/USMC) Skytrain, used as a general purpose transport in USN Reserve VR squadrons, until recently.
 
I can appreciate the sentiment but the reality is possibly different, at least in my world.

Sixty-three minutes to get an ambulance to the scene the other day, with eleven agencies in three counties dispatched in total. While extreme, there are jurisdictions where twenty-five minutes from time of dispatch to at-scene arrival aren't uncommon. I work in one county, volunteer in another and listen regularly to three others which border. Even places with paid crew aren't covering calls within recommended guidelines because of volume. Arrive within seven minutes 95% of the time? I don't know anyone who can hold their breath or bleed that long from a serious wound.

Beats the hell out of "nothing," though. I suppose ...

I'm just a ground-pounder. I appreciate the fervency of wanting to do better. I even believe we "need" to. Gotta' be blunt, though, and suggest that the couple minutes you all are looking to save in the air MAY only be part of a much larger puzzle. Knock yourselves out doing the best you can to change what is possible. I'd want priority if it were me in that stretcher, or someone I loved.

From my perspective as a first responder and dispatcher, the system is broken well before a Medevac is even called.
 
Dugie8 said:
400A. All this thing needs is carbon breaks and voila some descent numbers.

300 pounds of med equipment....
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Even the Pilata-Uhaul gets near gross on the longer trips with all the crap in the back. And yeah, the brakes on the beatch left a bit to be desired. Now make them smaller and lose the buckets and glass and you've got the Mighty Diamond II! Fear it! ;)
 
Boris Badenov said:
Well, mostly. Like, the vast, vast majority, anyway. I've had maybe two kids where I was told that we needed to get there RIGHT NOW, and one of those had more to do with potential complications than imminent death. That said, I think some of the more remote/rural programs get more urgent cases with more regularity, as the distances involved are simply too great for a helo. Of course they're also far less likely to have trouble with ATC routing...hell they're lucky if they have radar service at all!

Just meant as an aside...in general I agree with you entirely.
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I'm with BB here. Many f/w ops are blasé hospital-based ops and transfers. However, occasionaly those are urgent and when doing the community-based we did scene calls. Sometimes it was due to IFR conditions, other times r/w assets were committed. I've had to file several flight plans for on leg. We didn't know which trauma center the patient make it to, needed the L-I but might only make to the closer L-III. Hit by a train, set on fire by a spouse, GSW -- we hauled 'em all. And sometime we do need to get there yesterday. Again, as LN we do appreciate any shortcuts to get there.

With that said...maybe this tread has run its course?
 
Bob Ridpath said:
I'm just a ground-pounder. I appreciate the fervency of wanting to do better. I even believe we "need" to. Gotta' be blunt, though, and suggest that the couple minutes you all are looking to save in the air MAY only be part of a much larger puzzle. Knock yourselves out doing the best you can to change what is possible. I'd want priority if it were me in that stretcher, or someone I loved.

From my perspective as a first responder and dispatcher, the system is broken well before a Medevac is even called.
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deadstick said:
...Hit by a train, set on fire by a spouse, GSW -- we hauled 'em all. And sometime we do need to get there yesterday. Again, as LN we do appreciate any shortcuts to get there.
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I believe for ATC we can make the most difference with the least amount of "real" effort. We can't clear the roads when they're gridlocked and we can't fix the rest of the system but what we can do, with literally as much effort as lifting a finger and opening our mouths, is clear the way in the sky to shave those 25 minutes you lost due to the system failing you on the ground. The overwhelming majority are just so unwilling to make the effort cause "you filed that way". They won't even ask if you want it.

It sounds like a pain and some treat it like the end of the world but it can be done and it can be done better, at least in Los Angeles, Albuquerque & Oakland Centers, as well as SoCaL & Joshua Approach. Every one of them is guilty in one way or another of unnecessarily causing you guys undue delay. I see it at least 5 times a week, it needs to change, and with a little effort by us, it will...
Bernoulli Fan said:
traffic permitting
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DvLzArchAngL said:
I believe for ATC we can make the most difference with the least amount of "real" effort. We can't clear the roads when they're gridlocked and we can't fix the rest of the system but what we can do, with literally as much effort as lifting a finger and opening our mouths, is clear the way in the sky to shave those 25 minutes you lost due to the system failing you on the ground. The overwhelming majority are just so unwilling to make the effort cause "you filed that way". They won't even ask if you want it.
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That is an over-generalization. That may be the case in your airspace and your facility but that is not the case everywhere, and that is what MikeD genot N90-EWR and myself have been trying to say. So please, stop trying to tell every medevac pilot everywhere that reads this that if they don't get direct to destination every time that the controllers working their flights are weak and lazy, because that is simply not true. No one here is arguing about your specific air space, but maybe you shouldn't be airing your facility's dirty laundry on a public forum.
 
greg1016 said:
That is an over-generalization. That may be the case in your airspace and your facility but that is not the case everywhere, and that is what MikeD genot N90-EWR and myself have been trying to say. So please, stop trying to tell every medevac pilot everywhere that reads this that if they don't get direct to destination every time that the controllers working their flights are weak and lazy, because that is simply not true. No one here is arguing about your specific air space, but maybe you shouldn't be airing your facility's dirty laundry on a public forum.
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It's not an over generalization, people were arguing about our specific airspace and if the pilots aren't afforded top priority they should be asking "why?" the same way when we're unabled we have to justify it to the other controllers. I guarantee you that if that plane was on fire you'd find a way to make it work, everywhere.

I've conceded to the fact that there may be a very limited amount of reasons why they can't be afforded top priority yet you've failed to acknowledge that. You're so stuck on stupid that since you can't do it we should burn those saying you can and keep it private. The only people who want dirty laundry kept out of the limelight are those accountable for the actions or repercussions.

Bottom line, acknowledge your duty priority and bust your ass to put them first. It's not an option, it's your job.
 
DvLzArchAngL said:
It sounds like a pain and some treat it like the end of the world but it can be done and it can be done better, at least in Los Angeles, Albuquerque & Oakland Centers, as well as SoCaL & Joshua Approach. Every one of them is guilty in one way or another of unnecessarily causing you guys undue delay. I see it at least 5 times a week, it needs to change, and with a little effort by us, it will...
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Watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme.png
 
DvLzArchAngL said:
It's not an over generalization, people were arguing about our specific airspace and if the pilots aren't afforded top priority they should be asking "why?" the same way when we're unabled we have to justify it to the other controllers. I guarantee you that if that plane was on fire you'd find a way to make it work, everywhere.

I've conceded to the fact that there may be a very limited amount of reasons why they can't be afforded top priority yet you've failed to acknowledge that. You're so stuck on stupid that since you can't do it we should burn those saying you can and keep it private. The only people who want dirty laundry kept out of the limelight are those accountable for the actions or repercussions.

Bottom line, acknowledge your duty priority and bust your ass to put them first. It's not an option, it's your job.
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Just because I haven't tossed my two cents into this train wreck, and the thread was dying.....

The thing is, if a pilot does need direct to save a life he'll declare an emergency and if they don't they shouldn't be in that position. That's what it's there for, ya know, emergencies. If a life is not on the line, like in probably 90% of the fix wing transfers (just going by what the air ambo guys have been saying here, I just fly a rich guy roadblock) then a couple extra minutes isn't going to be life or death.

I appreciate your effort in trying to bring about change, but the way you two have gone about it leaves a little to be desired. I always love the "I'm not trying to make friends" line. Here's the thing, if you want to change some thing you're going to need friends. Your enemies sure as hell aren't going to help you. It's not a more bee's with honey kind of thing, it's a tact kind of thing.
 
FM_Weasel said:
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! It was dying, let it DIE
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Not 'til I say this, please!

About two and a half years ago, as a patient in our local, somewhat small to medium sized local hospital, (Marathon FL) I suffered a continuing health crash in the ICU ...decision was made on the third day of ICU to get me out of there to a much larger facility with better capabilities to save my sorry butt ... so was airlifted by chopper to South Miami Hospital, about 100 miles distant ...facility to facility, and time was truly of the essence ...bilateral MRSA pneumonia, into sepsis, renal failure ...many signals of impending death. Only thing I remember throughout an eight or ten day period or so was the attendant on the chopper ...at one point while in flight he squeezed my shoulder and asked "how was I doing ... we're almost there". It was dark, and cold, and noisy, and vibrating like crazy ...but I replied "OK" ...then slipped back into my stage 4 coma ...

There's a distinct possibility that I'd not be posting this except for the rapid ride ICU to ICU!

So thanks to all you guys (AirEvac crews and ATC types) who make close calls like this one successful!!!!
 
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