Scam or Good?

TFaudree_ERAU said:
I know a jack wagon that took a deal similar to this. He's now making a six figure salary, has three type ratings, and has a schedule that allows him to play golf two or three days a week.
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Was it a CFI job or a Corporate/Charter job? I don't mind washing a car or taking out trash if I am getting paid for it. $6/hr ain't gonna cut it.
 
mojo6911 said:
Was it a CFI job or a Corporate/Charter job? I don't mind washing a car or taking out trash if I am getting paid for it. $6/hr ain't gonna cut it.
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CFI. I helped build the facility, cut the grass, pumped gas, washed planes, answered phones, created advertising, turned wrenches, ordered parts, tracked inventory, billed shop work, instructed, and ferried planes. I was paid a day rate for the ferry flights, but otherwise it was a flat hourly rate. I earned my next job at a start up single pilot 135 outfit because I had exhibited the ability to do more than fly a plane. My current job came from someone I met while wearing my knee pads at the front desk of my first job.
 
RogerMurdock said:
Just curious on everyone's take on this:

I've heard of a couple places paying instructor's a "daily rate"; to the tune of $75-80/day. The normal hours are usually from 8am-7pm. Pretty much you and a couple other instructors are on staff for that day and fly with whoever comes in the door. Normally 5 days a week.

Job includes:

1) Flight instruction
2) Cleaning Bathrooms
3) Mowing the lawn
4) Washing planes
5) Taking out the trash
6) Etc.
7) Occasional nap

What do you think of this?

A somewhat dependable income, but you are stuck for 11 hours and required to do some pretty dirty labor. I'm not afraid of hard work, but does this perpetuate the poor pilot problem?
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Sounds like a day in the Army, without the flying part.
 
RogerMurdock said:
I think I agree with everyone.

Just to throw out other perspectives. They get paid if there's a week of constant rain or snow and/or if nobody wants to fly. It has been explained to me as being great because they average around $20,000 a year, which doesn't sound bad for a flight instructor (which pains me to say it). I was also told they don't need to worry about no shows and late students, because they are already out there anyway (perhaps that's just some poor justification for living at the airport). The only downside is that they have to dress up in a black maid's outfit and grab a feather duster for a little bit.
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$20k/year for working 60hrs a week, every week? Oh yeah that sounds like a dream! Are there openings? How do I sign up? Can I pay for my checkride too?


RogerMurdock said:
But, at this place, apparently most of the instructors move on within a year to a charter operation or something like that. I don't know the details,.
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So when they actually get to fly an airplane, gain experience and hours they move onto other jobs? Who woulda thunk?

I'm totally coming off like an ass I know, but seriously, what the heck is aviation coming to?


"A Life Aloft said:
And they often get tips. lol
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Just the tips? Oh wait, I read that wrong...
 
Mark815 said:
So when they actually get to fly an airplane, gain experience and hours they move onto other jobs? Who woulda thunk?

I'm totally coming off like an ass I know, but seriously, what the heck is aviation coming to?
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I was just pointing out that they moved on generally under a year to a presumably better paying position, and aren't lingering as an instructor for years on end. To put another way, they are putting up with the pain, to get out as quickly as possible. Which seems to be an ongoing theme.
 
RogerMurdock said:
Just curious on everyone's take on this:

I've heard of a couple places paying instructor's a "daily rate"; to the tune of $75-80/day. The normal hours are usually from 8am-7pm. Pretty much you and a couple other instructors are on staff for that day and fly with whoever comes in the door. Normally 5 days a week.

Job includes:

1) Flight instruction
2) Cleaning Bathrooms
3) Mowing the lawn
4) Washing planes
5) Taking out the trash
6) Etc.
7) Occasional nap

What do you think of this?

A somewhat dependable income, but you are stuck for 11 hours and required to do some pretty dirty labor. I'm not afraid of hard work, but does this perpetuate the poor pilot problem?
Click to expand...

Less than minimum wage? No thanks.
 
RogerMurdock said:
I was just pointing out that they moved on generally under a year to a presumably better paying position, and aren't lingering as an instructor for years on end. To put another way, they are putting up with the pain, to get out as quickly as possible. Which seems to be an ongoing theme.
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You could do that at any number of flight schools, but with a much better Flying / ground rate, free time to use as you see fit (get a second job, watch your own TV, sleep, etc...) and not have to tongue out urinals at the request of the master.... Heck, Ben just raised his rate to $30 an hour. There's more places where the "suck" isn't so bad....
 
RogerMurdock said:
I was just pointing out that they moved on generally under a year to a presumably better paying position, and aren't lingering as an instructor for years on end. To put another way, they are putting up with the pain, to get out as quickly as possible. Which seems to be an ongoing theme.
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There's a few things I see wrong right here. First off, lingering as an instructor? Why is instruction so looked down upon? If you (speaking generally here, not directed at OP) don't want to teach, than do us all a favor and don't teach. Nothing worse than a CFI who is only sitting next to their students for hours and a paycheck. There's many ways you can get hours that don't involve teaching someone else to fly.

Next, putting up with pain to move on? Why even put up with pain to begin with?? I don't understand the mindset. You are worth more than $6/hr. Just because someone has a job offer for you, doesn't mean you have to take it, especially if you know it's going to be for a lower than standard wage, with extra unpaid duty, and poor work environment. Why subject yourself to that?

I was an instructor for a couple years because I really had no other choice for jobs, but nobody forced me into it, and I actually wanted to teach because I thought it would help build my skills. Nobody was hiring 250hr pilots anymore at the time, so I stuck it out, but it was far from painful. I made a good wage as far as CFIs go, met a lot of great people, and had a decent time doing it.

I know I'm not the only one here who has a similar story. There's no reason to have pain in your career; that's no way to make a living, especially one that we're supposed to be so passionate about.

Getting into aviation to make less than minimum wage and mow lawns for some cheap boss who clearly has incorrect priorities? No thanks.
 
RogerMurdock said:
This is a good point. What do you say to those flying regionals at say 25k/year? Time away from home, millions in assets, lives at stake, etc. Granted most will say it is only short lived and the idea is to move up.

But, at this place, apparently most of the instructors move on within a year to a charter operation or something like that. I don't know the details, but this is coming from people who have been through the program here and are satisfied. I'm just playing messenger though, so don't shoot me.
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To those at the regionals, I quote another thread post:

Toonces said:
Don't forget to volunteer at the soup kitchen on your precious few days at home.. ;)

It's sad how many guys I met that were on their 3rd 4th and even 5th airline and none had made it to the big show yet. I met a girl I used to work with on her 5th airline.
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And to the scam artist who states to you about the 135 op, most people I know took at least a few years to get a $40 k FO job. As for me, it took 12 years for the $100 k job....
 
Mark815 said:
There's a few things I see wrong right here. First off, lingering as an instructor? Why is instruction so looked down upon? If you (speaking generally here, not directed at OP) don't want to teach, than do us all a favor and don't teach. Nothing worse than a CFI who is only sitting next to their students for hours and a paycheck. There's many ways you can get hours that don't involve teaching someone else to fly.

Next, putting up with pain to move on? Why even put up with pain to begin with?? I don't understand the mindset. You are worth more than $6/hr. Just because someone has a job offer for you, doesn't mean you have to take it, especially if you know it's going to be for a lower than standard wage, with extra unpaid duty, and poor work environment. Why subject yourself to that?

I was an instructor for a couple years because I really had no other choice for jobs, but nobody forced me into it, and I actually wanted to teach because I thought it would help build my skills. Nobody was hiring 250hr pilots anymore at the time, so I stuck it out, but it was far from painful. I made a good wage as far as CFIs go, met a lot of great people, and had a decent time doing it.

I know I'm not the only one here who has a similar story. There's no reason to have pain in your career; that's no way to make a living, especially one that we're supposed to be so passionate about.

Getting into aviation to make less than minimum wage and mow lawns for some cheap boss who clearly has incorrect priorities? No thanks.
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Derg, where's the uber-like button???
 
modernicarus said:
At ~$1500/mo, E-1's make much less than that and they have many, many, many 12+ hr days.
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E-1 base is $18500 If you count the free housing, meals, medical, tuition reimbursement and other bennies they make double that and more

Why would any CFI work for $6 an hour? Go work at McDonalds and leave aviation alone before you ho yourself out like that.

I had a plumber clear a drain the other day, $120 an hour and a 1 hour minimum and I guarantee his education didn't cost a quarter of what my CFI cost me to get.
You don't see plumbers out there cutting each others throats, or working for free, why do pilots?
 
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If you are really confused by the nature of this "offer", I would respectfully suggest that as a prospective professional pilot you will need to develop both better math skills and better self esteem.
 
Mark815 said:
uhhhh, really? 11 hours per day, which translated to less than minimum wage to:

"1) Flight instruction
2) Cleaning Bathrooms
3) Mowing the lawn
4) Washing planes
5) Taking out the trash
6) Etc.
7) Occasional nap"


As a CFI, depending on the company, you should be responsible for number 1, 4 and 7 on that list.



Yes.
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I'm not sure I'd even complete item 7 for that money...
 
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