Scam or Good?

RogerMurdock said:
The guy I talked to said, that they want the planes ready (out from the hangar & fueled) by 8:30. This translates to me in arriving at 8am to get that done.
Click to expand...

Depending how many airplanes, good luck getting that done in 30 minutes flat.

RogerMurdock said:
So for $75, that's between $6.81-$7.50, which is understandably horrible, but then again he did say they sit around and watch movies and do nothing a lot.
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter, if you're required to be there you should be getting paid properly. When I was a dispatcher at my flight school there would be somedays where we were weathered out, or on the weekend nobody was flying. On those days, all I had to do was watch movies, read JC and do whatever I felt like. Sometimes I would wait hours for ONE flight to get back at 1 or 2AM ScottL. Didn't matter though, I was required to be there, and I was paid $8.25 / hr to do it.

Now it's a completely different animal, if you're getting paid a great hourly flight instructor rate, and your only goal is to be there to flight instruct, and when you're done for the day you can come and go as you please. Then if you feel like watching a movie or hanging out with your coworkers between flights that's up to you what you want to do with no obligation to the company for you to be there.

Run very far away from a deal like that. You're making yourself a prisoner. You lose if you sit around all day, and do no flying because you're making less than minimum wage when you could be somewhere else working and getting paid proper. If you're flying a LOT, you could be making more than that, but you're not when you should be. Where I work, it would only take about 3-4 hours to make what you're saying you would make there in a day.

RogerMurdock said:
I think he's just looking at his yearly 20K and is satisfied in that he wouldn't be able to necessarily do that anywhere else hoping to have students.
Click to expand...

If your friend looks out there, there are flight instructor opportunities that pay just as good or better with more time off (come on a little JC mantra in the CFI world eh? :p MORE MONEY MORE TIME OFF:D ), and still allow him to have a good guaranteed student base to work with.

TLDR: It's a SCAM go find some place that respects their employees.
 
Sounds familiar to me, I interviewed at a place last year that offered me a CFI job very similar to this

Was a full time 40 hr job
Paid $8 an hour on the ground instructing or doing grunt work
Paid $18 an hour in he air but only after the first 12 hrs in a week, so your first 12 flight hours are free to the company and no you do not get the $8 hour during the first 12 of flight
They bill $45 ground $55 flight

I hate burning bridges but I told them to eat a D.
What's wrong with aviation? the next guy took the job like it was a gift from god!
 
That's a complete scam, no one should take that job unless they have zero self respect. How would it even be legal, what IS the minimum wage? I'd have to think its hovering just above that number. Doesn't matter if they don't have stuff for you to do. If you're obligated to stay there, you're working. Pay should reflect that.
 
Instead of sitting around on their kiesters all day, how's about drumming up business? If you have instructors sitting around doing nothing related to actually flying, why not get them doing something that would actually encourage more people to come through the door? Networking, marketing, etc.
 
How does this b.s. further one's career? When asked in an interview what you did while working at the Bendoverplenty Flight School, what are you going to say? Well, I watched a lot of tv, cleaned toilets, washed the owners car, got his lunch, emptied his trash cans and vacuumed his office? In my spare time I mowed the grass and did his laundry.

When I was a kid while getting and after getting my Private, I worked at two FBOs and made more money in tips, perks and a wage doing these types of chores. I was a teenager! And, this was decades ago for crap's sake! You mean as a grown man, after spending the time, effort, work and money to get your certs, you should be reduced to making $6.00 an hour, being available for 11 hours a day, flying/instructing a little and spending more time being a janitor? Really? Have some self respect, because obviously the man who runs this school has none for you whatsoever.

You could teach part-time at a real school for real money, only be there for those hours and get a better part-time job on the side that pays more and retain your dignity. Further you would not be playing into this guy's sham of how to run a flight school and have cheap labor to do his bidding. Who the hell wants to have a life and a career (oh wait you wouldn't have a life and would be too embarrassed to tell people what you are really doing all day long) whose days are filled with sitting around and watching tv? Are you this desperate?

How are you supposed to drum up students while doing manual labor and being forced to stay there 11 hours a day? How would you maintain a decent website advertising yourself and update it, go to flight clubs, get involved in the local EAA chapter, check out what local bulletins and rags are at the local FBOs and take out a small ad in one, visit various FBO's and locations at the FBOs and aviation events (like AOPA and whatever), go to schools on a career day or event and speak, to pass out business cards/flyers and talk to people? Lots of ways to market yourself and network and sitting in front of the Jerry Springer show and mowing grass is not going to get you there.

I pay the the guys who clean our planes inside and out, the hangar, offices, lavs, and do some small chores, far more money than you are being offered, treat them with respect, buy meals for them and provide sodas/water/snacks, whatever they need and give them little perks, gifts and bonuses. None of them are pilots either. This thread just makes me so angry.
 
sp238882 said:
That's a complete scam, no one should take that job unless they have zero self respect. How would it even be legal, what IS the minimum wage? I'd have to think its hovering just above that number. Doesn't matter if they don't have stuff for you to do. If you're obligated to stay there, you're working. Pay should reflect that.
Click to expand...
They will call them a contractor because of the CFi, there is no minimum wage for contract workers
Then you also get no unemployment, no benefits, no workman's comp, and they 1099 you on Jan1 and you have to pay taxes yourself
 
SteveCostello said:
Instead of sitting around on their kiesters all day, how's about drumming up business? If you have instructors sitting around doing nothing related to actually flying, why not get them doing something that would actually encourage more people to come through the door? Networking, marketing, etc.
Click to expand...


The person willing to take this kind of shiat job isn't self-motivated, entrepreneurial, or outgoing and probably couldn't sell water to someone dying of thirst.
 
DBrown said:
They will call them a contractor because of the CFi, there is no minimum wage for contract workers
Then you also get no unemployment, no benefits, no workman's comp, and they 1099 you on Jan1 and you have to pay taxes yourself
Click to expand...


They can call it what they want, that doesn't make it legal.

Here is just one of the IRS common law rules for contractor vs employee:
​
Behavioral: Does the company control or have the right to control what the worker does and how the worker does his or her job?​
​
​
 
Not sure how they are getting passed labor laws requiring you to be there that long, not paying overtime for a Non-Exempt position and paying below minimum wage?

Are they then 1099'ing your buddy and calling him a "contractor"? I don't see any other work around that might find its way against labor laws.
 
Tell the owner there's going to be a pilot shortage and you're holding out for $6.50 an hour to work 11 hour days - since thats what you predict you'll be paid when the regionals scoop you up
 
Ne
rframe said:
They can call it what they want, that doesn't make it legal.

Here is just one of the IRS common law rules for contractor vs employee:
​
Behavioral: Does the company control or have the right to control what the worker does and how the worker does his or her job?​
​
​
Click to expand...
Never said it was legal, but it happens constantly
Problem is the IRS doesn't care if you get employee benefits, only that you pay your taxes.
 
moxiepilot said:
Tell the owner there's going to be a pilot shortage and you're holding out for $6.50 an hour to work 11 hour days - since thats what you predict you'll be paid when the regionals scoop you up
Click to expand...

This is a good point. What do you say to those flying regionals at say 25k/year? Time away from home, millions in assets, lives at stake, etc. Granted most will say it is only short lived and the idea is to move up.

But, at this place, apparently most of the instructors move on within a year to a charter operation or something like that. I don't know the details, but this is coming from people who have been through the program here and are satisfied. I'm just playing messenger though, so don't shoot me.
 
RogerMurdock said:
I think I agree with everyone.

Just to throw out other perspectives. They get paid if there's a week of constant rain or snow and/or if nobody wants to fly. It has been explained to me as being great because they average around $20,000 a year, which doesn't sound bad for a flight instructor (which pains me to say it).
Click to expand...


It is still BS. The Federal minimum wage (with overtime) for 60 hours is $508/week. If you are getting a penny less than that, you are being ripped off. Yes, you would make $19,200 over a year. But minimum wage would have been $26,416. And that's assuming you worked 52 weeks without a break. 3,120 hours is a long time to spend at an airport. There is plenty of part time CFI work out there at $30-50/hour. I've seen CFI's charging $75/hour, and they manage to find business.

And trust me, anyone that eager to screw you out of $7,000 is going to cut corners elsewhere. They are making money any time you are instructing, so even if the weather is sketchy, or maintenance is sketchy, they will be pushing you to fly anyway.
 
RogerMurdock said:
This is a good point. What do you say to those flying regionals at say 25k/year? Time away from home, millions in assets, lives at stake, etc. Granted most will say it is only short lived and the idea is to move up.

But, at this place, apparently most of the instructors move on within a year to a charter operation or something like that. I don't know the details, but this is coming from people who have been through the program here and are satisfied. I'm just playing messenger though, so don't shoot me.
Click to expand...

I take it you are getting a whole lot of Multi time and 121 ops experience at this mom and pop school? Full medical and I'm sure they are in CASS too right? :confused:
 
RogerMurdock said:
But, at this place, apparently most of the instructors move on within a year to a charter operation or something like that. I don't know the details, but this is coming from people who have been through the program here and are satisfied. I'm just playing messenger though, so don't shoot me.
Click to expand...


Who is telling you that most of the guys move on to a 135 outfit after a year of this b.s.? Really? With what kind of experience and hours are these 135 ops hiring them? Let me get my shovel and hip boots.
 
TFaudree_ERAU said:
I know a jack wagon that took a deal similar to this. He's now making a six figure salary, has three type ratings, and has a schedule that allows him to play golf two or three days a week.
Click to expand...
And just how many people do you think that actually happens to? What percent? They go from part-time teaching and doing chores at a school to earning a six figure salary on their next job? Good grief. I always love these, "I know a guy" stories. (must be more to the story) For every guy someone knows, there are a thousand guys they don't know, that this doesn't happen to.
 
Okay I am wrong. It's a wonderful deal. He should go there, buy some knee pads and start working right away and squander his life and career away. After a year he'll be making six figures guaranteed, have three hot women on his arm and a new BMW. Remember, you heard it here first. :confused:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top