Scam or Good?

RogerMurdock

RogerMurdock

New Member
Just curious on everyone's take on this:

I've heard of a couple places paying instructor's a "daily rate"; to the tune of $75-80/day. The normal hours are usually from 8am-7pm. Pretty much you and a couple other instructors are on staff for that day and fly with whoever comes in the door. Normally 5 days a week.

Job includes:

1) Flight instruction
2) Cleaning Bathrooms
3) Mowing the lawn
4) Washing planes
5) Taking out the trash
6) Etc.
7) Occasional nap

What do you think of this?

A somewhat dependable income, but you are stuck for 11 hours and required to do some pretty dirty labor. I'm not afraid of hard work, but does this perpetuate the poor pilot problem?
 
RogerMurdock said:
A somewhat dependable income, but you are stuck for 11 hours and required to do some pretty dirty labor. I'm not afraid of hard work, but does this perpetuate the poor pilot problem?
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$6/hour ? Hahahahahahahaa. AHhahahahahah. Hahahahhahaha.

Hang some fliers at the bulletin boards at various local airports, fliers on windshields by the hangers, etc. 1 day's work. If you find 1 student at $50/hour, you are already coming out ahead.
 
uhhhh, really? 11 hours per day, which translated to less than minimum wage to:

"1) Flight instruction
2) Cleaning Bathrooms
3) Mowing the lawn
4) Washing planes
5) Taking out the trash
6) Etc.
7) Occasional nap"

So basically this flight school doesn't want to hire basic personnel to run the FBO, so they hope that some desperate, fresh pilots will do all the labor for next to nothing.

Yep, sounds about right for aviation.


As a CFI, depending on the company, you should be responsible for number 1, 4 and 7 on that list.

RogerMurdock said:
but does this perpetuate the poor pilot problem?
Click to expand...

Yes.
 
Doesn't sound good unless you could exceed that daily rate with more flying. For example: instruction at 20/hr with a 80/day minimum. I worked a CFI gig for awhile that was paid by billed hours with a monthly minimum.
 
tiredcfi said:
Doesn't sound good unless you could exceed that daily rate with more flying. For example: instruction at 20/hr with a 80/day minimum. I worked a CFI gig for awhile that was paid by billed hours with a monthly minimum.
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I like this idea.
 
Mark815 said:
2) Cleaning Bathrooms
3) Mowing the lawn
4) Washing planes
5) Taking out the trash
6) Etc.
Click to expand...


You wouldn't be able to find anyone at $6 an hour to do that.

But I'll tell you what, I'll pay $75/day to clean my house, mow my lawn, wash airplanes, change oil, answer the phones, etc, and I'll even let you take my students up when I'm feeling lazy. Because, you know, I like to give back :)
 
Maybe I should rephrase, but then again, perhaps labor laws are being broken. I'm not very well versed.

The guy I talked to said, that they want the planes ready (out from the hangar & fueled) by 8:30. This translates to me in arriving at 8am to get that done. Apparently they sit around quite a bit waiting, and therefore in that time the owner wants them to occasionally vacuum, mow the outside lawn, wash the windows, essentially maintain the grounds.Then they go back to watching movies or whatever they want (besides leave).

I asked him what time they left for the day and he said things start to normally slow down around 5:30-6, but they normally don't leave the building until 7pm. So for $75, that's between $6.81-$7.50, which is understandably horrible, but then again he did say they sit around and watch movies and do nothing a lot. I used to work at an FBO long ago, and the average yearly pay was ~ $12,000, but this was between 2001-2003.

So in other words they have "chores" to do everyday, but flying is their main responsibility.
 
Screw that. If they want an instructor they should pay them a realistic hourly rate to instruct. If they need a grunt for basic upkeep then they should pay someone a reasonable hourly rate to do grunt work. If a CFI wants to do grunt work in between lessons to help supplement their income, wonderful, but they should be paid a reasonable rate for whatever job they are doing at the time.

How friggin hard is it to run a time card, and mark off blocks of time spent doing grunt work and then being paid a separately hourly rate for instruction given.

Aviation is so full of B.S.

This idea that you owe the school extra for the honor and privilege of flying their crappy Skyhawk for a couple hours per day is just ridiculous.


Edit: If the job description includes all activities, that's fine, but make the salary then something reflective of doing both jobs... $6/hour 'aint it.
 
RogerMurdock said:
So in other words they have "chores" to do everyday, but flying is their main responsibility.
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It sounds like the "chores" are the main responsibility, since that is the only thing you are required to do every day.

And a 60 hour week? If you are "required" to be there, it is work. You should be getting paid overtime for anything past 40 hours.
 
I think I agree with everyone.

Just to throw out other perspectives. They get paid if there's a week of constant rain or snow and/or if nobody wants to fly. It has been explained to me as being great because they average around $20,000 a year, which doesn't sound bad for a flight instructor (which pains me to say it). I was also told they don't need to worry about no shows and late students, because they are already out there anyway (perhaps that's just some poor justification for living at the airport). The only downside is that they have to dress up in a black maid's outfit and grab a feather duster for a little bit.
 
RogerMurdock said:
Maybe I should rephrase, but then again, perhaps labor laws are being broken. I'm not very well versed.

The guy I talked to said, that they want the planes ready (out from the hangar & fueled) by 8:30. This translates to me in arriving at 8am to get that done. Apparently they sit around quite a bit waiting, and therefore in that time the owner wants them to occasionally vacuum, mow the outside lawn, wash the windows, essentially maintain the grounds.Then they go back to watching movies or whatever they want (besides leave).

I asked him what time they left for the day and he said things start to normally slow down around 5:30-6, but they normally don't leave the building until 7pm. So for $75, that's between $6.81-$7.50, which is understandably horrible, but then again he did say they sit around and watch movies and do nothing a lot. I used to work at an FBO long ago, and the average yearly pay was ~ $12,000, but this was between 2001-2003.

So in other words they have "chores" to do everyday, but flying is their main responsibility.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you want to be at the airport all day for $7/hr. These guys are working you over. But alas, I admit, I was willing to work for slave wages when I was a new CFI.
 
It's not a scam. A scam implies they're trying to put one over on you. They're being up front about the job; i.e. duties as assigned in exchange for a daily salary. Duties may include flying; or may not. Take it or don't, but if you take it, don't complain about it. You know what the job is.
 
99driver said:
Sounds like you want to be at the airport all day for $7/hr. These guys are working you over. But alas, I admit, I was willing to work for slave wages when I was a new CFI.
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I don't particularly want to, I'm just relaying the "pros" of what my buddy told me and why he's doing it. I think he's just looking at his yearly 20K and is satisfied in that he wouldn't be able to necessarily do that anywhere else hoping to have students. As most of you are alluding to above, perhaps the question is better suited for a lawyer in that he is watching Oprah and Maury most of the day, but must be there.
 
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