New FO Rule and Captains

Dan208B

Well-Known Member
So... I could be reading this wrong, but I don't think so. Fine print in the new rule says all Captains on Part 121 aircraft must have 1000 hours as a crewmember on a Part 121 aircraft.

This isn't an issue for 95% of pilots out there at 121 companies. Most upgrade times are longer than this. However, my current airline has been hiring street captains for a startup 121 operation. I'm trying to understand what's going to happen now. They hired a lot of extremely well qualified pilots without prior 121 experience as direct entry captains. And apparently this law goes into effect before the end of this month. So does that mean these folks will either be downgraded or out of a job? Many of them would not have taken the job as an FO (mostly for reasons of pay and/or they had a job previously that was better than an FO here but not as good as a Captain here.)

Anyone have any more insight on this and how it will affect the few folks out there that fall into this category?
 
So... I could be reading this wrong, but I don't think so. Fine print in the new rule says all Captains on Part 121 aircraft must have 1000 hours as a crewmember on a Part 121 aircraft.

This isn't an issue for 95% of pilots out there at 121 companies. Most upgrade times are longer than this. However, my current airline has been hiring street captains for a startup 121 operation. I'm trying to understand what's going to happen now. They hired a lot of extremely well qualified pilots without prior 121 experience as direct entry captains. And apparently this law goes into effect before the end of this month. So does that mean these folks will either be downgraded or out of a job? Many of them would not have taken the job as an FO (mostly for reasons of pay and/or they had a job previously that was better than an FO here but not as good as a Captain here.)

Anyone have any more insight on this and how it will affect the few folks out there that fall into this category?
Just shooting from the hip here, but if those guys don't have any 121 experience the. They would need to log sic time first. If the company is that desperate maybe these folks would be pay protected until they get the time
 
Just shooting from the hip here, but if those guys don't have any 121 experience the. They would need to log sic time first. If the company is that desperate maybe these folks would be pay protected until they get the time

I agree that they should be pay protected. The tough thing for these guys is that this seems to have kinda slipped into the new law. I heard about this a while back but thought the idea was abolished. Many of these folks would never have left their previous jobs to come here if they'd have known and now before they even hit the line they will likely be downgraded. I think most will leave in that scenario. Our company isn't by any means the only one with this issue either. I know PenAir did some hiring for street captains to BOS recently. I believe Mountain Air Cargo hires 121 Captains sometimes. And those are just a couple off the top of my head, I'm certain there's more....
 
Or 1,000 PIC in 135/91K turbojets.

When you get into the details there are some very specific restrictions here. I didn't look too much into the 91, but the 135 has to be turbojet and a "commuter" operation which does not encompass cargo.
 
When you get into the details there are some very specific restrictions here. I didn't look too much into the 91, but the 135 has to be turbojet and a "commuter" operation which does not encompass cargo.
Yea I just read that too.
 
I guess where I get heartburn about this rule is that we hired some folks flying airplanes from the left seat that are in the same size and type category, only under part 135. Now they are in a part 121 airplane and are unqualified for the position? It doesn't make much sense to me. I realize that this isn't a normal scenario, but again we are not the only airline that will be dealing with this.
 
So... I could be reading this wrong, but I don't think so. Fine print in the new rule says all Captains on Part 121 aircraft must have 1000 hours as a crewmember on a Part 121 aircraft.

This isn't an issue for 95% of pilots out there at 121 companies. Most upgrade times are longer than this. However, my current airline has been hiring street captains for a startup 121 operation. I'm trying to understand what's going to happen now. They hired a lot of extremely well qualified pilots without prior 121 experience as direct entry captains. And apparently this law goes into effect before the end of this month. So does that mean these folks will either be downgraded or out of a job? Many of them would not have taken the job as an FO (mostly for reasons of pay and/or they had a job previously that was better than an FO here but not as good as a Captain here.)

Anyone have any more insight on this and how it will affect the few folks out there that fall into this category?

Dan208B

The new 121.436:

(a)(3) If serving as pilot in command, has 1,000 hours as second in command in operations under this part, pilot in command in operations under §91.1053(a)(2)(i) of this chapter, pilot in command in operations under §135.243(a)(1) of this chapter, or any combination thereof. For those pilots who are employed as pilot in command in part 121 operations on July 31, 2013, compliance with the requirements of this subparagraph is not required.
 
Thanks I just found that too. What's the definition of "employed as a PIC?" We have people in class pre-checkride, guys on IOE, etc.
 
Thanks I just found that too. What's the definition of "employed as a PIC?" We have people in class pre-checkride, guys on IOE, etc.

Don't know. Having a similar discussion on the other site regarding employed as SIC.

Guessing that would be up to the FAA/company for clarification.
 
I guess where I get heartburn about this rule is that we hired some folks flying airplanes from the left seat that are in the same size and type category, only under part 135. Now they are in a part 121 airplane and are unqualified for the position? It doesn't make much sense to me. I realize that this isn't a normal scenario, but again we are not the only airline that will be dealing with this.


Concur.....and that's what happens when we get folks who "don't play the game" making the rules.;)
 
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