Non pilot flight experience in an old jetliner?

[J777Fly]

Someone recently asked me this question, but I had no answer for it. I hope someone can provide one....

If a businessman who had a lot of money, wanted to experience actually flying an old jetliner, like a DC-8 or 707, with a fully qualified crew (including a training Captain) on board, would the FAA allow this?

Let say the training flight is for 1 hour, the person does not have a pilots license, but does not handle the aircraft below 20,000 feet (so no take off and landing) and just handle the controls in simple turns, climbs and descents over the ocean. They would obviously be briefed before the flight on safety issues and some basics.

Could this be allowed in the same way someone who wants to fly a L39 or Mig29 can pay $$$$ for the experience?

 

[Jimmy_Norton]

Someone recently asked me this question, but I had no answer for it. I hope someone can provide one....

If a businessman who had a lot of money, wanted to experience actually flying an old jetliner, like a DC-8 or 707, with a fully qualified crew (including a training Captain) on board, would the FAA allow this?

Let say the training flight is for 1 hour, the person does not have a pilots license, but does not handle the aircraft below 20,000 feet (so no take off and landing) and just handle the controls in simple turns, climbs and descents over the ocean. They would obviously be briefed before the flight on safety issues and some basics.

Could this be allowed in the same way someone who wants to fly a L39 or Mig29 can pay $$$$ for the experience?

I don't see why not.

 

[RRPower]

It's part 91...as long as the ca is type rated and someone who has little regard for money is buying the gas you can go have fun. You couldn't pay the crew for use of the jet...you or they would have to own it. You can only buy gas. If not then it become 135 and then none of this would be kosher.

 

[Jimmy_Norton]

It's part 91...as long as the ca is type rated and someone who has little regard for money is buying the gas you can go have fun. You couldn't pay the crew for use of the jet...you or they would have to own it. You can only buy gas. If not then it become 135 and then none of this would be kosher.

Couldn't it be called training? That would allow the company to charge for more than just gas.

 

[J777Fly]

But if this is like any other air experience/training flight and the DC-8 or 707 is owned by a legitimate flight school, and the crew are all typed and instructors, couldn't this be considered just a regular air experience flight?

 

[BobDDuck]

John Travolta does this all the time. They even let him wear the hat!

 

[tomokc]

Don't these aircraft require a crew of two - CA & FO?

 

[J777Fly]

Don't these aircraft require a crew of two - CA & FO?

Yes they do, but the assumption is the CA and FO handle the flight below 20,000 feet and the person who wants to fly, swaps seats with the FO once they are at a safe cruising altitude. The FO just sits in the jump seat in case he is needed and the FE stays at their station as per normal.

 

[rframe]

what does 20,000' have to do with anything?

 

[jmreii]

Someone recently asked me this question, but I had no answer for it. I hope someone can provide one....

If a businessman who had a lot of money, wanted to experience actually flying an old jetliner, like a DC-8 or 707, with a fully qualified crew (including a training Captain) on board, would the FAA allow this?

Let say the training flight is for 1 hour, the person does not have a pilots license, but does not handle the aircraft below 20,000 feet (so no take off and landing) and just handle the controls in simple turns, climbs and descents over the ocean. They would obviously be briefed before the flight on safety issues and some basics.

Could this be allowed in the same way someone who wants to fly a L39 or Mig29 can pay $$$$ for the experience?

Sounds like this businessman has money aka Mr. Money Bags can do anything he wants because its part 91. I had the opportunity to walk around a B-720B private jet at Oakland, Calif about 7 years ago, it was a nice bird. It was not Travolta's bird this machine belong to someone else.

 

[J777Fly]

what does 20,000' have to do with anything?

Nothing, its just a hypothetical safety altitude that the insurance company could stipulate, as the person at the controls would not have a pilots license.

It could be 5000, 1,000, 10,000.

The question is, whether or not the FAA would allow this as a training flight (like you doing one at your local in a C172), considering the person who is flying DOES NOT own the airplane!

 

[rframe]

Ownership is irrelevant. If the aircraft requires two crew then you would need to hold at least a private MEL certificate to act as the required SIC. Sitting in the seat and putting your hands on the yoke while the SIC goes to use the lav... under part 91, sure why not, but that's not really "training" either.

Silly scenario, if you can afford to buy a big jet you can afford to get a MEL and typed if you really have an interest.

 

[J777Fly]

Ownership is irrelevant. If the aircraft requires two crew then you would need to hold at least a private MEL certificate to act as the required SIC. Sitting in the seat and putting your hands on the yoke while the SIC goes to use the lav... under part 91, sure why not, but that's not really "training" either.

Silly scenario, if you can afford to buy a big jet you can afford to get a MEL and typed if you really have an interest.

I disagree with one thing, no its not a silly scenario, and it was a genuine question posed to me. There are some very wealthy folk who would like to experience flying a jetliner without having to sit in a sim or buy their own jet! Just because you have a desire to fly don't mean you want to buy your own jet which sits in the hangar most times costing you money.

Just like people who would pay to fly a cold war jet in russia, there are those who just want that chance to fly an old jetliner. Its their money..

 

[derg]

Someone recently asked me this question, but I had no answer for it. I hope someone can provide one....

If a businessman who had a lot of money, wanted to experience actually flying an old jetliner, like a DC-8 or 707, with a fully qualified crew (including a training Captain) on board, would the FAA allow this?

Let say the training flight is for 1 hour, the person does not have a pilots license, but does not handle the aircraft below 20,000 feet (so no take off and landing) and just handle the controls in simple turns, climbs and descents over the ocean. They would obviously be briefed before the flight on safety issues and some basics.

Could this be allowed in the same way someone who wants to fly a L39 or Mig29 can pay $$$$ for the experience?

Sure, why not?

Part 91.