Student failed checkrides

Inverted25

Inverted25

Well-Known Member
How many do you guys have? I have two and feel like I let both of them down. I know people just have bad days but that doesn't make it any easier on me. Sometimes I question whether I really do a good job instructing or not.
 
I have one it was the first guy I got from zero hours. I definitely felt like I let him down especially now that he's pursuing a career in aviation at Purdue.
 
Don't sweat it, students know the pts (or should) forward and backward. They know what the standards are. If they are failing on the oral make sure your within ear shot on the next ride so you know what this DPE is looking for. I keep a binder of testimonials from students, and we use multiple DPEs. I let the prospect read the testimonials from students that were in the same situation and got through, or where and how they failed with each of the DPEs. Also make sure to talk to the DPE, so that you and he are on the same page as to expectations.
 
Inverted25 said:
Sometimes I question whether I really do a good job instructing or not.
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If you ask that question of yourself, I can give you the answer. You do a good job of instructing. The ones who don't do a good job never ask that question.

What you "may" need is focus on what you are teaching. I say "may" because you may not need to readjust your teaching at all. However, to be safe, I'd recommend taking with the examiners who have given your student their practical tests. Don't just talk to the ones who gave notices of disapproval (pink slips). Talk to all of them looking for what could have been improved upon.

In the future, ask permission to sit in on practical tests.

You would be amazed how few instructors follow-up with examiners. It's a resource that should be taken better advantage of. The thing you want to avoid is tailoring your training to the examiner. Just use it to see what areas may need more emphasis, but keep teaching the whole spectrum of subject.
 
It was the same examiner and the same area of operations that both failed on. Leads me to think I am deficent in teaching that area.
 
Busted rides happen sometimes. You can only do the best you can and the rest is up to the student. If its the same DPE and same area of focus, then ask them what the problem is. They are a service provider not God, so don't be intimidated by them. I personally didn't use DPE's with attitude problems. I want to know a busted ride is legit and not simply because the DPE was cranky that day.

Had 3 bust out of 47 sign offs. 1 FSDO, 2 same DPE that I didn't use again after that. (he was all too willing to stay and do a second ride quick for additional fee.) Rubbed me the wrong way.
 
It depends...
Inverted25 said:
It was the same examiner and the same area of operations that both failed on. Leads me to think I am deficent in teaching that area.
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Have you sought any feedback from the examiner? With two students in a row, that pretty much eliminates the student as the problem. Now it's either you or the examiner. With a briefing from him, you should be able to figure out whether or not you two are on the same page.
 
TwoTwoLeft said:
It depends...

Have you sought any feedback from the examiner? With two students in a row, that pretty much eliminates the student as the problem. Now it's either you or the examiner. With a briefing from him, you should be able to figure out whether or not you two are on the same page.
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Wasn't two in a row just two total
 
Fortunately no check ride failures so far (knock on wood). However, I have had students fail stage checks on occasion. Every time I haven't felt bad about it or questioned myself because the stage check instructor would fail students for stuff that I hammered into my students and stressed the importance of. I always got this response from my students after a failed stage check "you were right I didn't do that one thing you always taught me to be doing and I failed..."
 
Inverted25 said:
Sometimes I question whether I really do a good job instructing or not.
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Like others have commented I wouldn't get to down on yourself. Especially if you are utilizing any feedback from the examiner as a tool to help you improve. I dislike the rare occasions when the examiner just tells me my student did a good job and that nothing was wrong. There always has to be something I can improve on!
 
Inverted25 said:
Wasn't two in a row just two total
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I see... Are there any similarities in the students? Age, study habits, motor skills, personality type, how do they perform in a testing environment? If you can compare and contrast the two, it might help it from happening again if you get a similar student?

Do you think it was a primacy issue? There is not much you can do with flight maneuverers. Sometimes students are just going to have a bad day. I always try to push them so they have that day BEFORE the checkride. There are also nervous test takers. For those, I would tend to use a different examiner. Not because one is bad or the other is easier, it just makes the exam fair for the applicant. Students don't have to pay for a CFI they don't get along with, why should they have to do the same for an examiner?

There's a really easy way to see how your students will do in an evaluation. Set up a stage check (with a CFI you trust) put some pressure on them (the student) to perform and get some feedback from the student & CFI. Separately, of course.
 
I had two. One who decided to try a new stall recovery technique that his friend told him about the night before. He put the plane in a spin.

Second was someone whom I took over after we got rid of his first instructor. He fell on old habits under stress and botched the landings.
 
Damn, I'm doing the worst out of everyone it seems, I've had 3 failures out of 11 so far. All of them instrument rating applicants who failed too.
 
durind said:
Damn, I'm doing the worst out of everyone it seems, I've had 3 failures out of 11 so far. All of them instrument rating applicants who failed too.
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Meh, I wouldn't sweat it too much. I studied my ass off on my own, my CFII was there to fine tune and sign me off. I wish everyone took that approach, but it seems like I have to do a LOT of spoon feeding to most students. Students who take the time to study on their own make their own lives and mine so much easier.

Then again, I've soloed one guy and have zero checkride sign offs, so take it for what it's worth.
 
JordanD said:
Meh, I wouldn't sweat it too much. I studied my ass off on my own, my CFII was there to fine tune and sign me off. I wish everyone took that approach, but it seems like I have to do a LOT of spoon feeding to most students. Students who take the time to study on their own make their own lives and mine so much easier.

Then again, I've soloed one guy and have zero checkride sign offs, so take it for what it's worth.
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Yup, the easiest student I've had so far didn't mind hitting the books. The two hardest have been eating from the spoon. One of these guys should be studied, I mean like, by professionals. Every other flight was like hitting a solid brick plateau, the kid was somewhat of a mystery to me.
 
flyingbum said:
Yup, the easiest student I've had so far didn't mind hitting the books. The two hardest have been eating from the spoon. One of these guys should be studied, I mean like, by professionals. Every other flight was like hitting a solid brick plateau, the kid was somewhat of a mystery to me.
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Agreed. The best student I've ever had (my first actually) knew a crap ton before the first lesson. Naturally He dropped out almost immediately.
 
I've had one fail. He forgot to raise flaps after a short field t/o

Examiner felt bad and called to tell me about it. I told him I appreciate the call, but it's ultimately his call and I had no complaints on the failure. Fortunately, my student failed on his own accord. Had it been something I taught incorrectly or neglected to teach I would have felt horrible. He just had a brain fart.
 
JordanD said:
Agreed. The best student I've ever had (my first actually) knew a crap ton before the first lesson. Naturally He dropped out almost immediately.
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Yeah, I've had a couple drop. It's funny how we're not just Flight Instructors. We're motivators, mentors, nurturers, coaches, friends, and the go to guy. I think being an Instructor will make make me a much better Pilot and person.
 
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