Business Aviation Affected By ATC Delays

Seggy said:
My taxes go to the US Treasury and fund wars that I may not agree with, but I also know that the taxes/fees that are collected by the US Government fund the National Parks which I do use. Same concept.
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You are also breathing air, why not a tax on that to fund the EPA? We can attach a flow meter to everyone's lungs. Marathon runners aren't paying their fair share, you know...
 
Has anybody ever actually looked at the published fees for ATC in Canada? It's very reasonable for a light piston.

And the whole "$200 to shoot an approach" is a lot like the "Obama is gonna set up death panels and kill my granny" hysteria of 2008.
 
The government will still find a way to miss allocate the funds with user fees just like fuel taxes. On the topic of airlines vs ga in paying their fair share this has already been beaten to death. If I'm not mistaken ga has a higher fuel tax than airlines/gallon. That is "our" fair share taking up as much space as a 747.
 
adk said:
Has anybody ever actually looked at the published fees for ATC in Canada? It's very reasonable for a light piston.

And the whole "$200 to shoot an approach" is a lot like the "Obama is gonna set up death panels and kill my granny" hysteria of 2008.
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I'm looking at the NAV CANADA site now. We weigh a smidgen under three metric tons all-up, and I don't see any problem, at all, with that fee schedule.

That said, I don't have much confidence in the Administration's ability to run it like NAV CANADA, and guarantee that the fees would be used to support National Airspace System-related activities.
 
Seggy - All due respect, but not every thread is an invitation for you to rant about user fees. THIS thread is about GA pilots getting ground stopped due to ATC congestion.
 
If you read the article, they were going from the Baltimore area to South Carolina. The weather may not have been IFR as well as the fact that if it was in the Baltimore area, you have the ADIZ and ATC may not have the time to coordinate VFR Departures with IFR Departures in that area of the country with the reduced staffing. While VFR may be a good option from say RDU to MYR, it won't work when the jet wants to go RDU to VNY at 16,500.
 
tomokc said:
Back to the original topic, why not request an alternate route or two, and if all are rejected ask for them to assign a route? If they refuse, then they are clearly gigging you and should be reported.

This is sounding more like an intentional campaign to inflict pain, not an opportunity to step up and make the best of a challenging situation.
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Since I fly the treacherous, brutal , "no route for you" skies of the East, specifically the Northeast...

Here is how it goes: it will change. In most cases what you file is not what you will get. Sometimes it is to help you, sometimes it will not, so vigilance is required. If you are afforded the flexibility to take another route, once you get in the air you have more control over the situation, but don't be surprised if you are on the same route you accepted and have to divert for one reason or another. I have even had Cleveland Center on the phone about this. So, play it ethically. I would not buzz around the NE taking everything they told you, but there are a lot of options for diversions in the NE.

The question you asked has happened to me before. I was departing out of a control agency that I was not familiar with so I was not familiar with the flows. Three rejected flight plans. I could have gone VFR to start, but thunderstorms along my route and destination I was hesitant. Finally accepting their routing, it was basically the good word of tower I took to get me out of there and start negotiating in the air. I had time on my side, diversions planned and expected fixes planned. Once I was somewhere over Wash, they tried to give me an airway that would have put me in a minimum fuel situation, and I spent the next five minutes clogging up the frequency because of it. Grudgingly I accepted and found the last fix I'd stay on the airway before I knew I needed a turn to my destination. The tension helped though, I was cleared direct with the next controller, about 50 miles from my destination.

You can get direct in a lot of cases. You never know till you try. Knowing the airspace and routes helps a lot, if you have that time. Learn to be flexible to your extent possible. Basically, plan well ahead, anticipate, have options, remember you are the PIC, negotiate, be polite, and be ethical. That is how I fly in the NE.
 
n57flyguy said:
Since I fly the treacherous, brutal , "no route for you" skies of the East, specifically the Northeast...

Here is how it goes: it will change. In most cases what you file is not what you will get. Sometimes it is to help you, sometimes it will not, so vigilance is required. If you are afforded the flexibility to take another route, once you get in the air you have more control over the situation, but don't be surprised if you are on the same route you accepted and have to divert for one reason or another. I have even had Cleveland Center on the phone about this. So, play it ethically. I would not buzz around the NE taking everything they told you, but there are a lot of options for diversions in the NE.

The question you asked has happened to me before. I was departing out of a control agency that I was not familiar with so I was not familiar with the flows. Three rejected flight plans. I could have gone VFR to start, but thunderstorms along my route and destination I was hesitant. Finally accepting their routing, it was basically the good word of tower I took to get me out of there and start negotiating in the air. I had time on my side, diversions planned and expected fixes planned. Once I was somewhere over Wash, they tried to give me an airway that would have put me in a minimum fuel situation, and I spent the next five minutes clogging up the frequency because of it. Grudgingly I accepted and found the last fix I'd stay on the airway before I knew I needed a turn to my destination. The tension helped though, I was cleared direct with the next controller, about 50 miles from my destination.

You can get direct in a lot of cases. You never know till you try. Knowing the airspace and routes helps a lot, if you have that time. Learn to be flexible to your extent possible. Basically, plan well ahead, anticipate, have options, remember you are the PIC, negotiate, be polite, and be ethical. That is how I fly in the NE.
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Every time i use fltplan.com's most recent route, that is what i get to the letter
 
Autothrust Blue said:
I would certainly hope so. I'm more concerned about the guy running around in his own airplane, who doesn't want to pick up an instrument approach because it costs $200 a shot, and would rather scud run as a result.
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I've scud run before. Flew my Grandpa's YPF7 to Hamilton once in increasingly low ceilings. It was fun. I <3 scud running. Or, as the pilots who flew the plane I was in when it was new called it "flying to your destination".
 
tomokc said:
Seggy - All due respect, but not every thread is an invitation for you to rant about user fees. THIS thread is about GA pilots getting ground stopped due to ATC congestion.
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Hey - give him a break - he spends at least as much time lobbying for the evisceration of the second amendment.
 
amorris311 said:
That's a stretch. I think all he's looking for with the 2nd amendment is for it to be fluid just as others are.
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Yes, Seggy would like the 2nd amendment to be fluid. In that the only kind of gun allowed under it is:
super-soaker.jpg
 
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