Cessna halts production of entry level jets

Those are built here at the Independence Plant. Those and all the SE Piston and I think those Columbias. Too bad.
 
Never understood the supposed market for the Mustang anyway...

Walked in the Latitude mock-up today though. Seems like a solid idea.
 
With the horror stories I've heard about Cessna maintenance over the last year, this might be a good time to focus on improving that, lest they go bye bye.
 
This might be a misunderstanding by Flying Magazine or it's another example of media sensationalism.

Cessna is SLOWING production (25-30% production rate descrease) of the Mustang, CJ1, CJ2, CJ3, and CJ4. They are going to continue certification on the M2, Sovereign, latitude, and X.

Like everyone else right now, they are closing some hatches and riding out the next storm.

http://www.kansas.com/2013/04/17/2765558/cessna-cuts-production-after-first.html
 
Honestly, why so many different types. Seems like Cessna could save a lot of money if they cut that amount of different aircraft they sell.
 
Embraer is opening a can of whoop ass on Cessna. Textron began the ruination of them a decade ago when they bought them and ransacked their R&D budget.
 
Personally, The "entry level jets" are all pieces of crap so far. They aren't much faster than the majority of compariably priced props out there, burn a crap ton more fuel, can't carry much, and can't go very far. If you want an "entry level jet" buy a nice used, or even a new Citation that is already on the market, and certified for single pilot operations. The new avionics, while nice, are being used as to much of a crutch.

Getting up close and personal with the new Mustang, the things fit and finish make it look like something that was half ass slapped together with parts that were sitting around. A CJ3, is similar. Cessna has gone a built to many jets that are to close in mission to have anything that remains competitive. Reduce the amount of airplanes manufatured, or fail IMO. Just look at the price difference of the "entry level" jets Cessna is selling.
 
I know several Mustang owners so it's hard to say the VLJ thing has been a total flop. But most of them wish they spent a little more and got something a little bigger.

And my company has a 65% Cessna jet fleet. We don't seem to have many problems dealing with Cessnas maintenance department and sourcing parts etc...
 
mshunter said:
Personally, The "entry level jets" are all pieces of crap so far. They aren't much faster than the majority of compariably priced props out there, burn a crap ton more fuel, can't carry much, and can't go very far. If you want an "entry level jet" buy a nice used, or even a new Citation that is already on the market, and certified for single pilot operations. The new avionics, while nice, are being used as to much of a crutch.

Getting up close and personal with the new Mustang, the things fit and finish make it look like something that was half ass slapped together with parts that were sitting around. A CJ3, is similar. Cessna has gone a built to many jets that are to close in mission to have anything that remains competitive. Reduce the amount of airplanes manufatured, or fail IMO. Just look at the price difference of the "entry level" jets Cessna is selling.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with your first paragraph. I know of a company that replaced a C90 King Air with a Mustang. Their DOC's are lower, the passengers are more comfortable thanks to cruising at FL350 vs FL250, and they cruise 100 knots faster. I'm also not sure why you are referring to newer avionics as a "crutch".
 
Jimmy_Norton said:
I don't agree with your first paragraph. I know of a company that replaced a C90 King Air with a Mustang. Their DOC's are lower, the passengers are more comfortable thanks to cruising at FL350 vs FL250, and they cruise 100 knots faster. I'm also not sure why you are referring to newer avionics as a "crutch".
Click to expand...

When you can buy a very nice used example of a Citation for less than $1m, you can buy a lot of fuel for the $1.5-2.5m you saved, so direct operating costs are a "skew" of the statistics. The t-prop comment was a bit brash, yeah, but these new little jets are not new, just smaller packages of the existing stuff out there.

I have seen the crutch. I went from flying a Metro to flying a Cirrus. It makes people lazy. And it makes it much eaiser to loose SA if the MFD goes tits up. "OH S! The MFD just went black. Where the hell are we on this approach?!?!?"
 
mshunter said:
When you can buy a very nice used example of a Citation for less than $1m, you can buy a lot of fuel for the $1.5-2.5m you saved, so direct operating costs are a "skew" of the statistics. The t-prop comment was a bit brash, yeah, but these new little jets are not new, just smaller packages of the existing stuff out there.

I have seen the crutch. I went from flying a Metro to flying a Cirrus. It makes people lazy. And it makes it much eaiser to loose SA if the MFD goes tits up. "OH S! The MFD just went black. Where the hell are we on this approach?!?!?"
Click to expand...

I used to fly one of those sub-$1 million Citations, and it was a maintenance hog. I guess it just depends if you want to spend more on purchase costs, or maintenance.

If you're using the avionics in place of flying skill and SA, then yes, it is a crutch, but having flown both a Glass/FMS equipped airplane and a GPS/basic EFIS equipped airplane, I'd take the more advanced airplane all the time. The improvements in SA and the lower workload thanks to the automation improves safety tenfold, especially at the end of a long day or doing complex procedures. If part of the system goes tits up halfway through the approach, nothing is going to change, aside from a slight loss of SA due to the MFD going away. If something fails that is part of the necessary equipment to shoot the approach, I'm going missed, but you'd have to do the same thing in any airplane.
 
mshunter said:
...
I have seen the crutch. I went from flying a Metro to flying a Cirrus. It makes people lazy. And it makes it much eaiser to loose SA if the MFD goes tits up. "OH S! The MFD just went black. Where the hell are we on this approach?!?!?"
Click to expand...

Are you saying it is better to stay away from glass?
 
mshunter said:
Personally, The "entry level jets" are all pieces of crap so far. They aren't much faster than the majority of compariably priced props out there, burn a crap ton more fuel, can't carry much, and can't go very far. If you want an "entry level jet" buy a nice used, or even a new Citation that is already on the market, and certified for single pilot operations. The new avionics, while nice, are being used as to much of a crutch.

Getting up close and personal with the new Mustang, the things fit and finish make it look like something that was half ass slapped together with parts that were sitting around. A CJ3, is similar. Cessna has gone a built to many jets that are to close in mission to have anything that remains competitive. Reduce the amount of airplanes manufatured, or fail IMO. Just look at the price difference of the "entry level" jets Cessna is selling.
Click to expand...

Entry level Cessnas have a huge market in South America, Brazil has more registered Citations 500s/525s/550s then all the ones flying in the US combined. Big Jets only really work in the US and over few routes around the world, where you have airports with massive ramps, FBOs and no landing fees. Most of the rich people I know in Brazil would never sit in a turbo prop, unless they are farmers.

My home town airport in Switzerland serves some of the richest community in the world, most of them own an entry level citations, works just fine, especially in Europe there are places where you can`t even go with something bigger, thing about Greek Islands, Spanish Islands, Italian Islands and many mountain resort locations.

Friend of mine flies for europ star most of their revenue comes from their side sales biz of selling entry level citations.

I think most of this market is satisfied by used planes, but still they seem pretty successful to me.
 
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