Family Member wants airplane buying advice, $750k budget

TrustMeI'maPilot said:
I disagree, a competent professional pilot should be able to handle all of things you listed above, especially on a small twin turbine. Although, I agree that it's a much bigger job than most owners understand.
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Here's the reason I said what I said: Yes, a professional pilot can get the job done, but they're probably going to waste a ton of time, and more importantly, money, when doing it.

I've been working in aircraft sales for five months now. I work for a broker who has been doing aircraft sales since 2004, so he's basically mentoring me in all aspects of the business. Leading up to this, I had years of experience as a pilot and flight instructor. I also own an aircraft myself. I thought I had a pretty good handle on what it takes to own and operate an airplane.

Let me tell you, I didn't have any idea what I didn't know. I've learned so many new things in the past five months it sometimes makes my head spin.

My boss knows ins and outs of these deals I've never thought of before working here, particularly on the financial side of ownership. When helping a client, he's not just thinking about hourly operating costs and performance specs the way pilots do. He knows how much margin other brokers have in their aircraft so he knows what is or isn't realistic when negotiating prices to buy a plane from them. He knows how to negotiate prebuy inspections, what financing will cost and which companies have the best deals, who will get the best deal on insurance, how much and how quickly an airplane will depreciate, how to set up LLCs to maximize tax deductions, how to arrange leaseback agreements to best protect the owner, what the plane will be worth when it comes time to sell it...I could go on and on.

Basically, if somebody throws out an idea, my boss can very quickly tell them exactly why it is or isn't a good idea and how they might go about doing it better. He's not superman. He just works with this stuff day in and day out.

I've seen clients come in thinking they want a $50k plane and end up getting a $250k plane after talking through tax deductions, operating costs, financing options, and so on. I've also seen it go the other way. Honestly, now when I hear an inexperienced person throw out a number for their budget, I literally ignore it because they probably don't have any idea what they can actually afford until they become better educated.

One thing I do know though, is if they really are talking about a $750k budget and don't have a professional help them, they could easily mismanage 7% of the deal--in other words, lose $50k. Don't know the true market value of the plane, goof up the negotiations, miss something during the prebuy, go with the wrong insurance, underestimate how much the plane will depreciate...or maybe just flat out get the wrong plane for their mission...it doesn't take long at all to burn through 7% and possibly much more. That's why paying a professional two or three or four percent to help is worth every penny and then some.

The question shouldn't be, "What airplane should I buy?" The question needs to be, "Who is the right person to help me buy an airplane?"
 
Erik10 said:
Really? Garrets are more fuel efficient, faster and louder! You will get more bang for your buck with an MU2 (any model). If you buy a Beech, you will be paying for the name and expensive parts.

Where's Boris Badenov he'll back me.
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Hmm, so you mean like, that Beechjet, they just jacked the price up on the Mitsubishi Jet? I kid, I kid.
 
YAY to management companies! Because although your pilot thinks he is capable of managing your asset...WHO is managing him!

:bang:
 
cezzna said:
Whatever you do, don't get an MU-2. NOT for beginners. Period.
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Oh, Boy! Do you preach what you hear / read? An MU2 is as dangerous as the next airplane. High bank angles and slow speeds with spoilerons is a bad idea. Each aircraft requires specific training to operate, and the MU2 is no exception. I'm sure you're saying it's a dangerous aircraft because of it's history, well, what do you have to say about Cirrus? Is Cirrus also a dangerous aircraft because of it's history?
 
Erik10 said:
Oh, Boy! Do you preach was you hear / read? An MU2 is as dangerous as the next airplane. High bank angles and slow speeds with spoilerons is a bad idea. Each aircraft requires specific training to operate, and the MU2 is no exception. I'm sure you're saying it's a dangerous aircraft because of it's history, well, what do you have to say about Cirrus? This is also a dangerous aircraft because of it's history?
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I was going to say, have there been any accidents due to lack of training once the SFAR took effect? I can't seem to think of any.
 
WacoFan said:
You didn't answer "Lodestar". Coupled with the fact that you have a hanger full of airplanes and that none of them is a Lodestar...well, I'm afraid you''re a loser.
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Ok, I got an email from my him today...

He says he plans to personally use the airplane 8-10 days per month and that his company would use it an additional 2-4 days per month.
The longest route example he gave me was 900 NM, KEFD-KPSO. Most were less than 300 NM.
Then he says he wants the plane to be able to carry 7 people + a pilot, "with gear".

He says he has allocoted all the money needed to operate a C90 and that costs will not be a problem. He seems to really want a C90 with PT6's and seems to have his mind made up. Will it haul 7 people and bags over any kind of distance, even if half of them are children?
 
Alchemy said:
Ok, I got an email from my him today...

He says he plans to personally use the airplane 8-10 days per month and that his company would use it an additional 2-4 days per month.
The longest route example he gave me was 900 NM, KEFD-KPSO. Most were less than 300 NM.
Then he says he wants the plane to be able to carry 7 people + a pilot, "with gear".

He says he has allocoted all the money needed to operate a C90 and that costs will not be a problem. He seems to really want a C90 with PT6's and seems to have his mind made up. Will it haul 7 people and bags over any kind of distance, even if half of them are children?
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I do believe that will be a tight fit in a c90 (it's been a while since I've been in one, though). The 7th seat in a 90 is a belted potty, if I remember correctly. A 200 should do it without a problem, but that means more moola.
 
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B100 is what he needs if hes going for a King Air. Our B100 is faster than the 90, more fuel efficient, hauls an extra 1000 lbs easy, 1500 NM range even with a headwind, cabin of a 200, and you can buy them for around 750k.

I fly a C90B. It wont fulfill his mission. Per mile, a B100 is the same cost as a 90.
 
So what is the max range of a C90 with a butt in every seat and 20 lbs of luggage per person?
 
Alchemy said:
So what is the max range of a C90 with a butt in every seat and 20 lbs of luggage per person?
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On our C90B. If every seat had 200 lbs (including the belted lav) with no luggage, we could put in 1700 lbs of fuel. Fuel burn roughly 500lbs per hour. @ 230 TAS making it around a 600 NM range plus reserve.
 
A larger King Air would probably be needed. I fly a highly upgraded B200 and it is a tight fit sometimes when we have to load it to the gills and go 600 miles.
 
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