Manual Flight - What's your thought?

Which do you prefer?

  • Manual Flight

    Votes: 23 65.7%

  • Automated Flight

    Votes: 11 31.4%
  • Total voters
    35
Ryan Fitzgerald

Ryan Fitzgerald

New Member
I know theres a few of you that actually fly aircraft for a living (or are retired) and this question is for you. I'm a 14 year old Student Pilot with over 40 hours in a 172. I just finished watching a newer ACI of Air France Flight 447. This has always been my "favorite" air investigation and I've read/watched a lot about it. In this ACI they mentioned something about how pilots (of Airbus aircraft especially) are getting more reliant on the automation in aircraft. Now, I've heard this many times but I've never quite thought about it as much as I did after hearing it in this show. The biggest thing that got me thinking was when the guy mentioned on how the pilots ability to fly the aircraft manually is deteriorating. The first thing that I thought of was my instructor. He has flown to places like Miami from Virginia in a brand new Diamond DA40 XLS and never even attempted to touch the autopilot. I thought that was crazy! Before hearing that I always dreamed of owning a plane just like that so I could HAVE an autopilot. Well my thoughts switched to owning an older 182 maybe with NO autopilot. (Ya know, you always wanna be like your instructor! :) ) Anyways, I was just wandering. Is there any regulations as to when the autopilot has to be cut on for you guys? Like above FL180 or something. Now, I'm not talking about a 13 hour flight from Rio to Paris, but let's say your flying from MIA to IAD. Could you actually fly the aircraft manually from point A to point B? This might not sound fun to you because it's a lot of work. But could you? What would other people think? I was just thinking... My long term goal is to become a professional pilot and how cool would it be if I was one of the only pilots that barely touched the autopilot during a flight. Then I connected that thought to AF 447. What if I was in the same position as those pilots were. I can fly the aircraft manually and only have a 50 foot gap in my altitude (talking in theory here ;)) and automation is easy! So if I ever wanted to use that, it would be no problem switching back to manual flight! I could have flown the aircraft like there was no automation installed whatsoever when it shut down! Or I could have already been flying it manually! (I'm not saying that I could have prevented that though!!) Basically, I just wanted to get a conversation going and hear some of your thoughts on flying the aircraft manually vs using automation. I don't really know - I'm just a 14 year old student pilot!

Thanks!
- Ryan

P.S. - Just for the heck of it, I posted a poll on what YOU (as professional pilots) prefer to do. Manual or Autopilot.
 
Ryan,

Better question than your average 20 (or 40) year old student pilot comes up with, IMHO. The answers are going to be complex and varied, but as a general principle, you'd shoot yourself in the head before hand-flying for 14 hours in the flightlevels, but it's a skill that one ought to have, and from what I've seen, it's a skill that is rapidly deteriorating, as you've suggested. Lots more to say, but I'm curious as to what the polity at large wants to add first.

Edit: I voted "manual" simply because it's more fun during T/O, Approach, and Landing. I like George just as much as everyone else for cruise.
 
Boris Badenov said:
Ryan,

Better question than your average 20 (or 40) year old student pilot comes up with, IMHO. The answers are going to be complex and varied, but as a general principle, you'd shoot yourself in the head before hand-flying for 14 hours in the flightlevels, but it's a skill that one ought to have, and from what I've seen, it's a skill that is rapidly deteriorating, as you've suggested. Lots more to say, but I'm curious as to what the polity at large wants to add first.
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Well, like I said, I don't think a pilot should fly for 14 hours manually. I'm talking more on like, for example, MIA to IAD. A what? 2 hour flight?
 
Automation for the Boeing. Works good, lasts long time. Allows better situational awareness when you're tired or busy, but yes, I try to hand fly when the workload is low.
 
Last year I hand flew a Cub for 16 hours across the country without an autopilot, wasn't needed nor did I break 3,000' AGL.

Automation is nice however it requires the user to be just as active and not just another passenger.
 
Since you asked about regulations regarding the autopilot, yes you are required to use it in RVSM airspace, which is from flight level 280 (28,000 feet) to FL410 (41,000). Other than that, you can pretty much hand fly it if you want to.
 
Also, with 40 hours in Cessna's at such a young age why not consider earning a glider rating and ditch the CFI (for a couple years and then solo and airplane) ?
 
Sounds like we have a freight dog in the making!

My current airplane is my first airplane with a real working autopilot... and even then I often end up hand flying because it sucks at capturing anything, well it can do it, but not smooth enough for the people in the back, IMO. For cruise... it's on if it's behaving.
 
z987k said:
My current airplane is my first airplane with a real working autopilot...
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Heh. Reminds me (as everything good seems to) of the Mighty Mitsi. It had "Nav" and "Approach" modes. And we only used them in training, because they weren't worth a poop, even when they were working, which was always a roll of the dice. Autopilot was a CHAMP in ALT HOLD and HDG modes, though. And really, what more do you need? "Request heading 130 until receiving Rome VOR". "Rough Rider 421, cleared as requested...again". :D

Edit: FD was on crack, though. Never used that under any circumstances. It moved around like it was on roller skates.
 
You guys should fly something with three autopilots, VNAV that works well, and, yes, even autothrottles hooked up to it all. I don't care how Billy Badass you guys are with all the hand flying, you'll soon be letting Jorge do the flying while whining about the crew meals. ;)
 
Boris Badenov said:
Heh. Reminds me (as everything good seems to) of the Mighty Mitsi. It had "Nav" and "Approach" modes. And we only used them in training, because they weren't worth a poop, even when they were working, which was always a roll of the dice. Autopilot was a CHAMP in ALT HOLD and HDG modes, though. And really, what more do you need? "Request heading 130 until receiving Rome VOR". "Rough Rider 421, cleared as requested...again". :D

Edit: FD was on crack, though. Never used that under any circumstances. It moved around like it was on roller skates.
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Well I'm sure the AC690/5 isn't all that different(same era, same engines), except we have to have a working autopilot because we're pax ops. But the Flight Director works really really well. It's off the G600 though, and that thing works well. It's the Approach and Nav mode that has trouble. Especially with a stiff crosswind.
The one thing I don't like about heading mode, or even nav mode in cruise is it will almost always go to a 30 degree bank and go 10 or so degrees past the heading before then banking back the other way. In other words... not smooth. So I'll do a bunch of hand flying until everything is straight and level.

Also, Rome VOR as in REO? What the crap were you doing out there? That's a LONG ways from STL.
 
z987k said:
It's off the G600 though, and that thing works well.
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G600? Kids these days. We had ONE Mitsi with any kind of GPS, IMS. It was an "L" with a cargo door and ONE 430. That thing was beastmode for charter freight, but for a regular route? Gimme that Marquise. -10s FTW!
 
Ryan Fitzgerald said:
Well, like I said, I don't think a pilot should fly for 14 hours manually. I'm talking more on like, for example, MIA to IAD. A what? 2 hour flight?
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I'll handfly through FL180 typically. After that, it's AP on. Sure you can take it all the way up to the FLs but once you are in level cruise flight, you aren't really getting any more special skills by not putting the AP on. At that point, it's just fine movement of the trim and the autopilot can do it better in cruise. At my previous airline, I had AP deferred on 2 different occasions so that would be an all manual flight. At my current airline on the Airbus (320 family) that I fly, everyone uses the AP in the cruise portion. The aircraft autotrims even with all automation off. So you set the pitch and it will trim it for you. That's why in cruise flight, the AP can adjust it quicker and better than handflying. After takeoff, it's usually the pilot's own discretion as to when the AP comes on. For descent, approach, and landing, again, pilot discretion. It all depends on the situation. You can take all automation off and it still flies like any other airplane. The AF crash is puzzling in the sense that no one has been able to explain why the right seat FO decided to pitch up rapidly and hold it there. 15 degrees noseup in the upper flight level regime of the Airbus is not going to last long, as it won't in any other commercial jetliner. The issue is handflying enough to know the different pitch versus power configurations. Knowing, for example, that at 10 degrees noseup and climb power, the A320 will climb ~ 250 kts from 3000-10,000 feet. Or in cruise flight, 5 degrees noseup with climb power will slowly get you back to green dot. Knowing what power settings are appropriate on approach, etc etc etc.

Too much automation can lead to complacency, and that can be dangerous. It's important to be aware of what's going on and if the AP George isn't doing what YOU want it to do, it's time to click it off and takeover.
 
Agreed with above, autopilot for the big plane, hand fly the small one. I hate being on a deadhead when you have the hand flying flight crew jerking the airplane all over the place.
 
Jpax said:
Agreed with above, autopilot for the big plane, hand fly the small one. I hate being on a deadhead when you have the hand flying flight crew jerking the airplane all over the place.
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You can be smooth even when handflying. There are some who just jerk the yoke for no reasons. Smooth input on the yoke/sidestick is still doable in manual flight. :)
 
staledog said:
Since you asked about regulations regarding the autopilot, yes you are required to use it in RVSM airspace, which is from flight level 280 (28,000 feet) to FL410 (41,000). Other than that, you can pretty much hand fly it if you want to.
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ONLY in cruise in RVSM airspace. You may handfly climbs and descents, but once on the assigned altitude, the automation must be used. I've handflown many a Canadair, Boeing, Airbus, and McD up to and down from RVSM altitudes.
 
staledog said:
Since you asked about regulations regarding the autopilot, yes you are required to use it in RVSM airspace, which is from flight level 280 (28,000 feet) to FL410 (41,000). Other than that, you can pretty much hand fly it if you want to.
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Does the FAA say you must use the AP, or you must have an AP? Two different things.
 
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