Hai I would liek to offer my pilit sirvices 4 free

I would try to lure him to Grand Forks, naturally on his dime, with the promise of flight time. Then when he got here I'd meet him at the terminal and conveniently remember that I already have a CFI certificate and, "Thank you for your time, but your services are no longer needed."
 
Y'know, he posted his own name/number on a bulletin board. There really shouldn't be any liability for re-posting that information here.

I mean, if a bunch of pilots started harassing him about it, it's sorta his fault. Right? I'm just sayin'.
 
I think the world would be a better place if everyone spent a little more time worrying about their own careers and a little less time worrying about everyone else's.

I do not feel the least bit threatened by this guy.
 
I do not feel the least bit threatened by this guy.

If I was flying out of that airport (or others nearby) I would not feel threatened either. Any aircraft owner that's worth a crap would see right through this guy and hire a competent and qualified professional. (this individual is clearly not a professional)
 
If I was flying out of that airport (or others nearby) I would not feel threatened either. Any aircraft owner that's worth a crap would see right through this guy and hire a competent and qualified professional. (this individual is clearly not a professional)

You should, because its not just about aircraft owners and CFI's.

Ive been in the ferry business for a few good years now. On average I lose 4-5 jobs a year to "freebee flyers" (I normally move between 10-13 planes a year).

Just in the last month I have lost 2 flights to "freebee flyers". I spent two weeks in constant correspondence with each client. Over numerous e-mails we coordinated and I even answered their questions on what they should be doing to ensure that they get a good deal on their plane. By the way, they get the price of the services in the first email they get from me. So they liked the price and they continue to lead me on. They then drag me on for two weeks then say that they will give me a date they want the plane moved in the next e-mail.... and the next e-mail never comes...

I send a follow up e-mail and the reply is always the same...

"I found a local commercial pilot who flew it for expenses only. They wanted the hours. Thank you for your time. you have been a great help and youre very profesional. If I, or a freind ever need a ferry pilot in the future I will be sure to contact you again!"

You may not feel threatened, but you should. Because when the other locals at the airport see something like that, they know that a FREE option is available. Just the notion that a FREE option is out there, makes YOUR services less valuable. Its JUST the same as those suckers who pay $27,000 to an excuse of an airline in order to "WORK" for them in the right seat.

It cheapens our industry and destroys our prospects for making a decent living.

You cant blame an aircraft owner, Airline CEO or other employer for take advantage of this penomenon to save money. The fact that pilots do it to themselves kills me!

As usual, pilots are the pilots worst enemies.
 
You should, because its not just about aircraft owners and CFI's.

Ive been in the ferry business for a few good years now. On average I lose 4-5 jobs a year to "freebee flyers" (I normally move between 10-13 planes a year).

Just in the last month I have lost 2 flights to "freebee flyers". I spent two weeks in constant correspondence with each client. Over numerous e-mails we coordinated and I even answered their questions on what they should be doing to ensure that they get a good deal on their plane. By the way, they get the price of the services in the first email they get from me. So they liked the price and they continue to lead me on. They then drag me on for two weeks then say that they will give me a date they want the plane moved in the next e-mail.... and the next e-mail never comes...

I send a follow up e-mail and the reply is always the same...

"I found a local commercial pilot who flew it for expenses only. They wanted the hours. Thank you for your time. you have been a great help and youre very profesional. If I, or a freind ever need a ferry pilot in the future I will be sure to contact you again!"

You may not feel threatened, but you should. Because when the other locals at the airport see something like that, they know that a FREE option is available. Just the notion that a FREE option is out there, makes YOUR services less valuable. Its JUST the same as those suckers who pay $27,000 to an excuse of an airline in order to "WORK" for them in the right seat.

It cheapens our industry and destroys our prospects for making a decent living.

You cant blame an aircraft owner, Airline CEO or other employer for take advantage of this penomenon to save money. The fact that pilots do it to themselves kills me!

As usual, pilots are the pilots worst enemies.

Amen
 
"I found a local commercial pilot who flew it for expenses only. They wanted the hours. Thank you for your time. you have been a great help and youre very profesional. If I, or a freind ever need a ferry pilot in the future I will be sure to contact you again!"

God forbid anything happen to his plane or pilot, but sometimes you get what you pay for. If I bought an airplane that I couldn't fly home myself, I would want more than just a "commercial pilot" flying it.
 
Thousands of people work for free all the time including myself during the walk around and loading the flight plan.
 
If I was flying out of that airport (or others nearby) I would not feel threatened either. Any aircraft owner that's worth a crap would see right through this guy and hire a competent and qualified professional. (this individual is clearly not a professional)
For every upstanding owner or boss that will pay money to hire a professional there's 3 scumbags that would love to find a spineless pilot who will fly for free and let them push him around.
 
Well... the way I see it, there's not much difference between this person and the 9,000,000 applications that go to airlines every day. Might as well be working for free for the first several years.
 
I was once fired for refusing to work for free, meh, eff em. I didn't bust my butt in school and in training to get these certificates and ratings to not get paid for it. This isn't UNICEF, you know maybe one day UNICEF will get into the flight training business...
 
Well... the way I see it, there's not much difference between this person and the 9,000,000 applications that go to airlines every day. Might as well be working for free for the first several years.
It could be worse, like in Europe where people are willing to pay for their interview, type rating (at €30,000), their own lodging during training, their uniform, etc... without pay until IOE.
 
For every upstanding owner or boss that will pay money to hire a professional there's 3 scumbags that would love to find a spineless pilot who will fly for free and let them push him around.
It's not the owner/boss that is the scumbag. It's the pilot willing to do it.

If I were a business owner, aviation or not, I'd exploit every moron out there that will work for me for free and not lose a second of sleep over it.
 
It's not the owner/boss that is the scumbag. It's the pilot willing to do it.

If I were a business owner, aviation or not, I'd exploit every moron out there that will work for me for free and not lose a second of sleep over it.
Both of them. But yeah, mainly the pilot.
 
Just in the last month I have lost 2 flights to "freebee flyers". I spent two weeks in constant correspondence with each client. Over numerous e-mails we coordinated and I even answered their questions on what they should be doing to ensure that they get a good deal on their plane. By the way, they get the price of the services in the first email they get from me. So they liked the price and they continue to lead me on. They then drag me on for two weeks then say that they will give me a date they want the plane moved in the next e-mail.... and the next e-mail never comes...

I'm in the aircraft sales business. We do both brokerage (helping clients sell their plane) and acquisition services (helping clients buy a plane).

In this line of work, the largest part of why we're valuable comes from our expertise. It's essentially consulting services. We're not really selling a tangible product. The tangible product, the airplane, is not ours. The intangible product of making the deal go smoothly, protecting the client from common pitfalls, negotiating on behalf of the client, getting the best deal possible, and so on is what we sell. We are selling knowledge.

Plenty of potential customers spend hours talking to us about what their goals are, what they want to do, and how to best go about doing it, only to walk away and complete deals on their own without ever signing a contract with us. It's part of the game we play. We have to give out a certain amount of information in order for prospective clients to see the value of our services and trust us, yet we can't give out too much assistance without a contract, because then we're giving away the only thing we're able to sell, which is knowledge.

We accept this as a reality of the business we're in. It's not something to get upset about. It's something to plan for and build a business model around. Maybe you should do the same.

By the way...all that free advice you give out to help people get the best deal on a plane...should I be mad at you for undercutting me?

I send a follow up e-mail and the reply is always the same...

"I found a local commercial pilot who flew it for expenses only. They wanted the hours. Thank you for your time. you have been a great help and youre very profesional. If I, or a freind ever need a ferry pilot in the future I will be sure to contact you again!"

You may not feel threatened, but you should. Because when the other locals at the airport see something like that, they know that a FREE option is available. Just the notion that a FREE option is out there, makes YOUR services less valuable.

No it doesn't. I can get a free burger using a coupon at Burger King, but that doesn't mean the $12 burger at Granite City is somehow worthless. They are two different products for two different prices.

It sounds like you need to do a better job of communicating why your services *are* more valuable than the free guy. They are, indeed, more valuable...right?

I don't know what your angle is, but your job from Day 1 needs to be politely expressing why your client shouldn't even consider using anyone but yourself. You're insured but the other guy isn't, you're going to take better care of the plane, you have a more flexible schedule, or maybe it's as simple as the client just LIKES you better. I don't know. All I'm saying is, if you actually are worth more, educate the client on why.

It cheapens our industry and destroys our prospects for making a decent living.

Only if you let it. I'm making a fine living with all kinds of jokers around me.

As usual, pilots are the pilots worst enemies.

I'll agree with you on this one. Particularly within the airline/freight/CFI sectors where everyone is pretty much interchangeable and there are stacks of equally qualified pilots waiting to take the job if you don't do it. But those jobs are simply commodities. Bus drivers in the sky. Pass training and don't piss anyone off and everyone is equal, just cogs in a machine.

Not so much among ferry pilots. It's more of a capitalistic market. Lots of niches and angles to play. If one can't make money, it's more an issue of an inadequate business model than being undercut. If other pilots undercutting you are a consistent problem, you need to change your business model to address the problem.

A long time ago somebody gave me advice about flight instructing. It applies equally well to ferrying. They said, "If you try to compete on price alone, you'll lose every time. There's always somebody out there willing to do it cheaper. The way to get ahead is by giving clients the best value possible for their money."
 
Plenty of potential customers spend hours talking to us about what their goals are, what they want to do, and how to best go about doing it, only to walk away and complete deals on their own without ever signing a contract with us. It's part of the game we play. We have to give out a certain amount of information in order for prospective clients to see the value of our services and trust us, yet we can't give out too much assistance without a contract, because then we're giving away the only thing we're able to sell, which is knowledge.





No it doesn't. I can get a free burger using a coupon at Burger King, but that doesn't mean the $12 burger at Granite City is somehow worthless. They are two different products for two different prices.

It sounds like you need to do a better job of communicating why your services *are* more valuable than the free guy. They are, indeed, more valuable...right?

I don't know what your angle is, but your job from Day 1 needs to be politely expressing why your client shouldn't even consider using anyone but yourself. You're insured but the other guy isn't, you're going to take better care of the plane, you have a more flexible schedule, or maybe it's as simple as the client just LIKES you better. I don't know. All I'm saying is, if you actually are worth more, educate the client on why.

"

I think your advice seems a tad contradictory. You tell some one that you yourself get undercut on occasion, then dole out advice on how not to get undercut? Maybe I'm missing some thing?

While it is true we should make sure our own house is in order, it's up to us as pilots to educate the groms (surf/skate term for FNG) on why as a professional we don't give our services away. If pilots continue to be our "own worst enemy", isn't it up to us to try to be a fellow pilots "own best friend"? To help, mentor, and actually care about what we leave for the next generation? Maybe this guy thinks the freebie practice is completely acceptable because he saw or heard of another doing the same thing. I think if we are to break that cycle we should be concerned about another's practice, if/when it can effect change to the career as a whole. Not just "offer a better product" or "give the owner a reason to only pay you". So we can continue to bitch about pilots being our "own worst enemy" or we can at least attempt to change it if given the chance.
 
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