New Rest Rules

Eagle421flyer

Eagle421flyer

Well-Known Member
Recently I have entered the world of office work and I've been tasked with reading through the new rest rules and trying to sort them out. I was wondering what questions everyone had about them? Just trying to get a different perspective.....
 
Thats the conculusion I came to but now you can fly 9 hours instead of 8! But don't forget the 10 hour rule, now the company an book cheaper hotels near BMW dealerships further from the airport :)
 
Not a question per se, but most of the guys I've talked to don't seem to realize that the system is changing from flight hours in a 7 day period to duty hours in a 7 day period. I suppose the effect this change carries will depend on your individual company's scheduling trends.
 
Yes this is correct. The 30 flight hours in a 7 day period will be gone and replaced by the amount of time you are allowed to be on duty for the week and for the month. The window will be calculated in a rolling hours time instead of a calender day time. You will now be allowed a maximum of 60 flight duty period hours (your time on duty that includes preflight ,postflight, deadheading, time on reserve) in any 168 consecutive hours and 190 flight duty period hours in any 672 consecutive hours. The flight time of 100 hours in any 672 consecutive hours and 1000 hours in any 365 consecutive calander days is similar to what we have now. The amount of Flight Duty Peroid hours that you are allowed are based upon what time of day you report for duty and how many segments (legs) you will fly for that period. The maximum number of acutal flight hours is also based on your report time and will be either 8 or 9 hours whereas 9 hours is allowed during the day and 8 hours is allowed for early shows or night flying.

Your off duty time is now increased to 10 hours from duty off to report time and must have a sleep oppurtunity of no less than 8 hours. It is the certificate holders responsibility to provide the crew with a 10 hour oppurtunity free from duty and the crew members responsibility to make sure they have 8 hours uninterupted rest. Now if a smoke alarm goes off during that 8 hours and your sleep is interupted, now you need tocall the company, and it will reset your 8 hours for the night. This is the interpretation of the rule right now. So basically in a nut shell, you get a little more rest, and can fly a little more during the day. The above is for minimum required crew (unaugmented). For the augmented long hauler crews, the rules are slightly different in regards to hours you can fly, and the length of your flight duty period is now governed by what kind of rest facilities the aircraft has on board.

So we need to start thinking about our duty periods based on a rolling window of hours instead of days, and quality of life always falls back to the contract. These new work rules provide a slightly stricter envornement for rest and limit your flight duty hours allowable per day based on the number of legs you fly.
 
The way I read your post, a reserve that is on call for 12 hours on/12 hours off can only do that for 5 days out of 14. That's a pretty significant decrease in productivity where I work. That's one third fewer days on call in a month (10 in 28 vs the current 15/28). No wonder they fought so hard for a cargo cutout...
 
Reserve is a little different. All reserve is now considered long call reserve unless it is specifically assigned as airport standby or short call. I know that this may be a standard way of assigning reserve according to some contracts, but it now makes it an official way in the eyes of the Feds to schedule reserve.

A short call reserve is now limited to 14 hours reserve availability period. The total amount of hours of flight duty period and reserve availibility period cannot exceed the lesser of the maximum applicable flight duty period plus 4 hours, or 16 hours. That lingo is direct from the reg. I think it is a little clearer if we say it this way. Remember the flight duty period will now change based on start of day, and how many segments flown. If you do not fly, you will duty off at 14 hours. If you fly, you will have a flight duty period of "X" plus 4 hours not to exceed 16 hours total for your entire work day. At my company currently, we only sit a 12 hour reserve window (we only have short call reserve).

So basically, you can sit a little over 4 days of reserve in a rolling 60 hour period with 10 hours free from duty each day. Now it is back to the contract. Personally, I would want to sit 14 hours over a four day period and go home as opposed to spreading it out over a six day period, thus keeping my time at work more efficient.

Now for those that have long call. Long call can be converted to short call as long as the crew member recieved 10 hours free from duty. If a crew member is assigned a pairing off of long call, a 12 hour notice must be given if the flight duty period will begin before and operate into the flight crew member's window of circadian low (0200-0559).
 
Eagle421flyer said:
The flight time of 100 hours in any 672 consecutive hours and 1000 hours in any 365 consecutive calander days is similar to what we have now.
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I may be remembering it wrong, but I think the new rules are significantly different than what we have now. When I was at Pinnacle, we routinely had people getting bought off trips during the last three months of the year. Come January however, everybody reset and was back to being able to fly 100 hours a month.

The way I remember the new rules, you will never reset. The rolling 365 days is going to be a big change for companies that operate on a staffing model the makes averaging 95 hours a month a necessity. It will also come as a big shock to the pilots who enjoy crediting over 100 hours a month. 1000 hours divided by 12 is only 83.33. My bet is that you won't see schedules built to over 90 hours anymore, and your ability to pick up may be severely hampered as well.

This is good thing when it comes to well rested pilots, but it isn't going to be good for the pocketbooks of a whole lot of pilots who are already hurting for money.
 
So, looking at this, it sounds like reserve where I am won't really change much at all. We're already LCR except for the last two days of a reserve stretch. You CAN be escalated to SCR, but you'll know about it at the latest by 2 pm the day prior and have at least 14 hours off. SCR reserve stints are 10 hours at a time, so we've already got the 14 hours before the next SCR period set up. If I read the above correctly, we're already looking at 16 hours max with reserve + duty time since that's Whitlow right now. The only difference looks like it's going to be using the chart for duty period start, which is going to be new for everyone.

The major change for my carrier is going to be how red eyes will be handled. If you start a trip at 11:45 pm, you might not be able to make it from BOS-SJU and back before timing out.
 
DE727UPS said:
The way I read your post, a reserve that is on call for 12 hours on/12 hours off can only do that for 5 days out of 14. That's a pretty significant decrease in productivity where I work. That's one third fewer days on call in a month (10 in 28 vs the current 15/28). No wonder they fought so hard for a cargo cutout...
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You're "cut out" anyway. ;)
 
Garret Healy said:
So 2pm (1400) + 1400 off SCR start at 0400, RAP must end by 1800 ( 0400 + 1400 ).

Say you are assigned a FDP with 4 flights at 0500. The combined RAP and FDP must have a Scheduled End Time no later than the following:
Enter Table B at 0400, with 4 legs the max FDP is 1000, add 0400, that 's 1400 which is less than 1600, so the End Time is 1800.
Now The FDP itself must also be legal. 0500 Table B will return 1200. So 0500 + 1200 will be 1700.
Use the lesser of 1800 and 1700, The FDP must be schedule to end NLT 1700.
This is all in 117.21.

Extensions in 117.19
The extension will not begin until you have reached 1700, Normally you can be extended by 2 hrs, which would mean an drop dead time of 1900, but in this case you would you would still need to end by 1800.
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Good grief... I'm going to need a master's degree to understand this mess...


Question: What fits the definition of LCR? 12 hrs to the plane? 4 hrs to the plane?
 
DV8Pilot said:
Question: What fits the definition of LCR? 12 hrs to the plane? 4 hrs to the plane?
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Long call requires 10 hours of rest before reporting for duty. Any call out of less than 10 hours is considered short call and counts towards the rolling duty time limit.
 
DV8Pilot said:
Wow...

the regionals will hate that.
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It will probably mean that the places that have longer than 12 hour RAP will shorten them. Here we have 14 blocks. That means a guy can only work 4.2 days of reserve at a time before he times out. If they drop that down to 12 hours they can do 5 days in a row, which is the standard currently. It's going to suck though for guys who have historically bunched two groups of 6 reserve days together with a single day off in the middle, in order to get a longer block off later in the month. That won't be happening any more.
 
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