King Air questions.....

Baronpilot244

Killick Stoker
So we are cruising at FL210 - and its -35C O.A.T. we are in the clear and do not have the ice vanes extended. This btw is in a King Air C90B.
We note that the oil temps on both engines are climbing toward the red line (99C)
Our engines are PT6A-21s with Raisebeck 4 blade turbofan props.

The ITTs are quite low - around 640 and the torque is set at 1200 pounds per side.

Has anyone seen this before? We believe the oil cooler bypasses were probably either frozen open or the probes were thinking it was colder outside than it actually was - this was also a longer than normal flight for us so we really cold soaked the airplane.

We descended to 15000 and the temps came back to normal.

The other problem we had was our pressurization system started acting goofy - cabin diff went into the red and the pneumatic pressure gauge was pegged off the scale. As we descended the diff gauge kept climbing like a reverse altimeter - but the cabin altimeter remained constant so we were confident we weren't overpressurizing the cabin. We turned off the bleeds to confirm the were operating correctly and found this to be true as the cabin became cold. Also once were below 8000 we selected the cabin dump valve to open and basically landed without incident - no ears popping etc.

A night in a heated hangar sorted these problems and the next day i had a mechanic look at the system. He purged the P3 lines with N2 and it hasn't acted up since.

That is until heading home and the EFIS quit cold on me! Was a little exciting for a while as we were in IMC and the copilot's AH tumbled! Turning off the EFIS and allowing it to rest a few minutes helped, I was able to turn it on again and it came back up only to go down about 15 minutes later. Diverted to IAD and managed to get it ack working for an ILS approach in blowing snow!

Now back in warmer temps it all seems to be working fine - it seems it didn't think much of going North!

Anyone have any similar experiences in the 90? Or the 200/350 for that matter?

Bp244
 
Baronpilot,

I also fly a King Air C90B. I bet the problem is bad "vernatherm" valve. This is what directs the oil to the cooler, or bypasses it. These valves will totally close in very cold temps because the oil dont need much cooling. However once this valve is completely shut, old or worn out valves will sometimes get sticky and stay shut passing the cooler entirely even as oil temp starts to increase again. Descending into warmer air will usually cause the valve to unstick and work correctly. You pretty much got it right, except I believe that the valves were frozen "closed" not open. This will only happen in cold weather because in extremely cold weather is the only time these valves completely closes. What is odd is that both of these valves behaved this way at the same time!!! Can you have your mechanic clean these valves?

As far as the EFIS, did you try switching inverters? This has happened to me, and using the other inverter was a temp fix. Turned out to be a bad inverter. This looks like you had the same scenario that OSU had in their King Air in 2001. The difference is that they didnt up so well.

Maybe next time on the pressurization issue, check both the primary and secondary outflow valve with each other possibly? chances are slim that both of these quit working at the same time and checking them both againts each other will tell you if one of them is not working. My bet is that its an indication problem.

I had a DG and an AI keep freezing up and tumbling on me in extremely cold temps as well. Airplanes dont like cold weather.
 
Baronpilot,

I also fly a King Air C90B. I bet the problem is bad "vernatherm" valve. This is what directs the oil to the cooler, or bypasses it. These valves will totally close in very cold temps because the oil dont need much cooling. However once this valve is completely shut, old or worn out valves will sometimes get sticky and stay shut passing the cooler entirely even as oil temp starts to increase again. Descending into warmer air will usually cause the valve to unstick and work correctly. You pretty much got it right, except I believe that the valves were frozen "closed" not open. This will only happen in cold weather because in extremely cold weather is the only time these valves completely closes. What is odd is that both of these valves behaved this way at the same time!!! Can you have your mechanic clean these valves?

As far as the EFIS, did you try switching inverters? This has happened to me, and using the other inverter was a temp fix. Turned out to be a bad inverter. This looks like you had the same scenario that OSU had in their King Air in 2001. The difference is that they didnt up so well.

Maybe next time on the pressurization issue, check both the primary and secondary outflow valve with each other possibly? chances are slim that both of these quit working at the same time and checking them both againts each other will tell you if one of them is not working. My bet is that its an indication problem.

I had a DG and an AI keep freezing up and tumbling on me in extremely cold temps as well. Airplanes dont like cold weather.




Thanks for the input - I think your analogy of planes not liking cold weather is right on. I'm flying it this week - just did FHB - MGY and back to LEX today with no problems at all. Of course temps have been much higher all day and the plane seems to like it!
I did switch inverters and it seemed to help - so quite possibly an inverter issue as you say. (I have noticed in this airplane that a couple of times the inverter warning has flashed momentarily leading to a master warning flasher when using the no 1 inverter). I'm going to research the OSU King Air accident - I hadn't heard about that one.

Bp244
 
The 90 I used to fly had similar pressurization issues in cold weather. Purged the system with N2 and swapped the primary and secondary outflow valves. I was told it was due to condesation in the system, but I'm no mechanic. Just kept a close eye on it and figured it was an "old plane problem."
 
I have had the oil cooler clog on me before. I was flying an A90 at the time. The design of the oil cooler has it larger than a Kingair 200. In our case the cooler became too effective and the oil stops flowing. The bypass will open and allow the remaining oil to still circulate without using the cooler. That is why you get the higher oil temps. Our standard response is to try descending to get into warmer temperatures and help the cooler clear out.

Not sure about the pressurization issues though. You said that once it was purged my a mechanic it worked fine again. Could be that there was some moisture in the system that froze at altitude. That would cause all kinds of problems and could trick the system into thinking something is happening when its not.
 
That is until heading home and the EFIS quit cold on me! Was a little exciting for a while as we were in IMC and the copilot's AH tumbled! Turning off the EFIS and allowing it to rest a few minutes helped, I was able to turn it on again and it came back up only to go down about 15 minutes later. Diverted to IAD and managed to get it ack working for an ILS approach in blowing snow!
For purposes of my own self-preservation, is this with the Collins EFIS set?
 
For purposes of my own self-preservation, is this with the Collins EFIS set?

Yes it is - EFIS 85 two tube! They are getting harder and harder to service and find parts for. Everyone is going to G1000 or G600 etc. We've recommended changing it out but they plan to upgrade to a KA350 soon so its on hold. In the meantime we're going to install an electric attitude indicator where I can see it without craning my neck to the co-pilot's side! Cheaper than a G600 I suppose!

Bp244
 
Yes it is - EFIS 85 two tube! They are getting harder and harder to service and find parts for. Everyone is going to G1000 or G600 etc. We've recommended changing it out but they plan to upgrade to a KA350 soon so its on hold. In the meantime we're going to install an electric attitude indicator where I can see it without craning my neck to the co-pilot's side! Cheaper than a G600 I suppose!

Bp244
At work, we have lots of EFIS 85 parts, which is probably why you can't find parts.

Interesting occurrence. The only troubles I've had with the system have been AC power-related.
 
Aha! So you're the one's hogging the parts! Our EFIS has behaved perfectly ever since this incident - nobody has any clue why.

Bp244
 
Aha! So you're the one's hogging the parts! Our EFIS has behaved perfectly ever since this incident - nobody has any clue why.

Bp244
If you were flying the Brasilia we would shrug and smile and say "it's a Brasilia thing" - they checked it out and could not duplicate...
 
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